Would You Or Would You Not Do The Wedding?

[Alan Carter]

Interesting post here: http://www.bpnews.net/

I would sure like to hear the different views from pastors on whether or not they would perform the wedding.

[William Thornton]

I'm with the majority in that I take weddings on case-by-case basis if there is a divorce, same for cohabitation.

[Gene Scarborough]

I fail to see how a Pastor should consider himself the judge on whether to perform a marriage or not.

The couple came to you in the beginning because they wanted to seal their relationship with a formal religious wedding ceremony. That was a positive step toward you and God! For a pastor to then place himself a judge / jury / executioner makes no sense to me.

Rather, I see it as an opportunity to discuss with a couple the nature of a good marriage. If they are feeling guilt over the past, then use the opportunity to help them find God's forgiveness---not yours!

The article deals mostly with cohabiting couples. Sadly, and stupidly, that is happening more than we realize. For me it reflects women cheapening their right to be chaste. We all know how easily any morals go out the window when a man starts thinking with his "lower head" over his "upper head." The woman is in control of the real ethics of sexuality.

Once lust and sex enter the picture confusion is easy to follow. My most important question to any couple is "How do you feel about the same sex parent of your pospective spouse?" They always try to cover any problems there. I then explain to them that the reason for the question is that most likely their spouse will be more like their parent than they will ever realize now. If you don't like her morther or his father, then problems are likely ahead which should be resolved now before the commitment becomes more formal.

I haven't ever talked any couple out of a wedding, but have had some come back to me later and admit, "I should have paid more attention to that question because I got the parent I really didn't like!"

[Ed Pettibone]

I'm with the majority in that I take weddings on case-by-case basis if there is a divorce, same for cohabitation.

Ed: Of course as a layman I don't do weddings but I am with those who go on a case by case basis. My opinion is shaped in part by 9 years of being involved in involved in singles ministry leadership for 8 years. I believe there are more important issues to be considered, than cohabitation and simple question of prior marriage. I consider a prior divorce to be a yellow flag not an absolute reason for waving a red flag.

My wife has been a pastor for 9 years, and tomorrow she will be doing her first wedding. Largely because other couples who have come to her asking to be married refused premarital counseling or the counseling has exposed issues that needed work. In some cases the couple chose to go to some one else rather than work on the issue. In at least two case they decided they could not reconcile the issue(s) and called off the wedding.

[Dave Roberts]

I'm with the majority in that I take weddings on case-by-case basis if there is a divorce, same for cohabitation.

I have always worked on a case-by-case basis with an unwavering counseling requirement. I'm not certain what the LifeWay study was trying to establish. Does anyone have a clue?

[William Thornton]

I fail to see how a Pastor should consider himself the judge on whether to perform a marriage or not.

The couple came to you in the beginning because they wanted to seal their relationship with a formal religious wedding ceremony. That was a positive step toward you and God! For a pastor to then place himself a judge / jury / executioner makes no sense to me.

Rather, I see it as an opportunity to discuss with a couple the nature of a good marriage. If they are feeling guilt over the past, then use the opportunity to help them find God's forgiveness---not yours!

Well, thanks for the lecture, Gene, but how about this: Man comes divorces his wife for his younger, sexier, trophy wife...wants a pastor to marry them and for his new wife to be accepted in the church. Would you pronounce God's blessing on this? If not, then you're just like me handling wedding requests on a case-by-case basis.

And I'm with Trudy in requiring counseling which eliminates some wedding requests.

Dave, this is one of the most pertinent issues that should be discussed between church and prospective pastor. The results are interesting, about what I expected.

[Gene Scarborough]

William---

The basic biblical situation I always bring to a divorced couple deals with Jesus' take on "divorce and re-marriage = adultery."

One with a knowledge of Jewish law knows that Jesus was referring to the ability of a Jewish man to present his wife with a "certificate of divorce" and it is over. The woman is not granted that same right.

A man doing his trade-in for a younger "trophy model" is doing exactly what Jesus said WAS "legalized" adultery----and I don't bless adultery, but I leave it to their conscience to deal with such. The woman usually gets it more clear that what goes around comes around and she is likely to be the next in a string of wives-----until his money runs out!!!

I have had that to happen as the lady wised up to his wandering eye.

[Alan Carter]

It does make my day to see your many and varied comments. Thanks for helping me get through the heat wave.

[Jim]

For a pastor who assumes the say-so on weddings (who can and who can’t have his services), it might be better to ask no questions and make no assumptions.

[Ed Pettibone]

For a pastor who assumes the say-so on weddings (who can and who can’t have his services), it might be better to ask no questions and make no assumptions.

Ed: Jim, I am sorry I do nor understand what you are saying here. But I am interested. Would you give it another shot?

[William Thornton]

William---

The basic biblical situation I always bring to a divorced couple deals with Jesus' take on "divorce and re-marriage = adultery."

One with a knowledge of Jewish law knows that Jesus was referring to the ability of a Jewish man to present his wife with a "certificate of divorce" and it is over. The woman is not granted that same right.

A man doing his trade-in for a younger "trophy model" is doing exactly what Jesus said WAS "legalized" adultery----and I don't bless adultery, but I leave it to their conscience to deal with such. The woman usually gets it more clear that what goes around comes around and she is likely to be the next in a string of wives-----until his money runs out!!!

I have had that to happen as the lady wised up to his wandering eye.

Not sure I'm clear here, Gene. You would not accept this wedding and pronounce God's blessing upon it; therefore, you decide on each case?

[Alan Carter]

If some of you guys are willing to do a wedding for a couple living together or divorced because of no real reason, am I to assume that you would also do a same sex wedding?

Just asking.

[Jim]

For a pastor who assumes the say-so on weddings (who can and who can’t have his services), it might be better to ask no questions and make no assumptions.

Ed: Jim, I am sorry I do nor understand what you are saying here. But I am interested. Would you give it another shot?

The sure-fire way not to have a problem is not to ask the applicants if they’ve ever lived together or been intimate, been divorced, etc. If the pastor knows they’ve been living together, he is not required to assume they’ve committed fornication if that would be a problem for him. If he has a problem with divorcees, assuming he knows of their circumstances, he might be forced to make a decision if he has a problem with that. There are biblical reasons for divorce. I suspect that one of the surest ways for a pastor to be placed in hot water is to turn down any church member or member of a church family. I worked in Baptist churches full-time for 10 years but made certain never to be ordained, thus dodging both weddings and funerals, both of which can be problematic besides taking up a lot of time. If I had been a preacher, I probably would have made a rule to conduct no weddings, though I couldn’t have gotten out of the funerals. If memory serves, I believe Cecil Sherman, regarding weddings, had that understanding with the church in North Carolina before he took the job.

When a wedding is conducted in the church, like any other activity it would be a mode of worship. It should not be tainted by the biblically-condemned behavior of the applicants…or the preacher. The preacher should insist that he will conduct the wedding in HIS way, including approval of anything such as music connected therewith. Any justice of the peace can perform a wedding, but a wedding in a church is a different matter. Frivolity and entertainment can be indulged during the reception. I’m sure there’s little to no agreement with any of this. I wouldn’t have lasted six months if I had gone into the ministry and this subject would have been a large part of the reason.

[Ed Pettibone]

If some of you guys are willing to do a wedding for a couple living together or divorced because of no real reason, am I to assume that you would also do a same sex wedding?

Just asking.

Ed: And why would you make that assumption, as for Dave, I don't think it is legal in his stare. I really can not speak for any one else but, not even William but I am rather sure in his case your assumption is wrong, And you are wrong so far as my pastor/wife is concerned also. As far as a couple who are living together is it not better that they marry if indeed they now want to follow God's will for their lives? And they love each other and have no major issues? What else would you ask of them. And btw, I have worked with a lot of divorced folk, (in Singles ministry} and I have yet to meet any one who had divorced for no real reason.

And Jim, My wife has made her position on doing / or not doing weddings and funerals clear to the churches where she has pastored prior to accepting their call. Thus far in 9 years it has not been a problem. In fact when we where in the Adirondacks many families with no church affiliation welcomed her service at funerals for their loved ones. And largely I believe it is because she has never tried to turn a rascal into a saint. Nor did she condemn, that is God's preview. Funerals are for the living not the deceased.

[Sandy]

As an ordained minister, you are not obligated to perform weddings if you choose not to do so.

Not having ever served as a senior pastor, I haven't performed a whole lot of weddings. The first one I ever performed was my sister's wedding, and then the same year, I performed a wedding for her best friend. Normally, when I've been asked, its because I've been the remaining staff member at a church that lost its pastor. I guess I've done about 15 weddings over the course of the last 30 years.

I do have a counseling requirement, and I would consider each request on a case by case basis. At my last church, when our pastor resigned, I was the only full time staff member who remained, and I was there for three years before the next pastor was called. We got a lot of requests for weddings because our facility was very traditional in its appearance, and all couples requesting to use the facility were required to set up a counseling appointment with the pastor. During that three year period, I met with two dozen couples who were planning a wedding in our church building. Though I only performed one ceremony myself, I met with all of the others. Most of them did not have a church of their own, which was why they were asking to use our facility. Of course, most of them were living together and had been for quite some time. In a couple of cases, there were children involved. Having the chance to speak with them was an opportunity to do some teaching with regard to their own spiritual life and spiritual condition and to direct them toward putting their marriage on a Christian foundation. I never got a negative response to that, in fact, had several couples who made re-dedications and two couples actually began attending church as a result of their contact with us.

There probably would be circumstances under which I would decline to perform a wedding, and I believe that I am entitled to my own convictions, regardless of the fact that I am ordained.

[Gene Scarborough]

William---

I did the counseling and they did the deciding. You might call that a "case-by-case" approach, but I didn't feel I was their judge. They have to live with the decision and commitment to wed.

Sandy---

I like your take. It bespeaks compassion and encouragement as a minister of the Gospel. Think what would have happened if you portrayed yourself as the judge, jury, executioner of ideal morals in a less than ideal world of reality. I don't think Jesus ever did such = "go and sin no more, you are forgiven."

[Alan Carter]

Here are some things I would consider for "no real reason":

1. To marry your secretary.
2. Because she kept hiding my remote control.
3. Because she didn't like sports.
4. Because I want an open relationship.
5. Because I didn't like his mother.
6. Because she couldn't cook.
7. Because he went hunting too often.

These are just a few of the ridiculous reasons I have heard over the years for getting a divorce. I still do not consider them valid nor Biblical.

[Ed Pettibone]

Here are some things I would consider for "no real reason":

1. To marry your secretary.
2. Because she kept hiding my remote control.
3. Because she didn't like sports.
4. Because I want an open relationship.
5. Because I didn't like his mother.
6. Because she couldn't cook.
7. Because he went hunting too often.

These are just a few of the ridiculous reasons I have heard over the years for getting a divorce. I still do not consider them valid nor Biblical.

Ed: One of the first things one learns in counselor education is that the presenting problem is often something other than the "Real" problem.

And you have not explained your assumption about the willingness of some here to do same sex weddings.

[Dave Roberts]

If some of you guys are willing to do a wedding for a couple living together or divorced because of no real reason, am I to assume that you would also do a same sex wedding?

Just asking.

Can't speak for anyone else, but that's not my cup of tea.

[Sandy]

If some of you guys are willing to do a wedding for a couple living together or divorced because of no real reason, am I to assume that you would also do a same sex wedding?

Just asking.

No. That's not the same thing.

[Gene Scarborough]

So----how do you distinguish between the list Sandy cited and the same-sex couple desiring to affirm their monogomous relationship to each other?

It would seem such a desire would offset the absolutely sinful lifestyle of seducing innocent people into it!!!

[Ed Pettibone]

So----how do you distinguish between the list Sandy cited and the same-sex couple desiring to affirm their monogamous relationship to each other?

It would seem such a desire would offset the absolutely sinful lifestyle of seducing innocent people into it!!!

Ed: What list did Sandy cite ? This Gene, is one of those picky details that I need, if I am to engage you question. I have gone through the thread and find no "list" cited by Sandy. Perhaps I missed it. And note, I corrected your spelling of monogamous.

[Sandy]

I think the list he cited was Alan's list of bad reasons for a divorce.

There are as many situations that come up when people are getting married as there are individual people who are getting married, and they are all on their own individual path toward spiritual maturity. My own experience with this isn't extensive, but generally, when people are considering marriage, and they want a church wedding done by an ordained minister, they've more than likely done some thinking about their personal situation and they are already thinking about making some changes.

When a divorce is involved, you can't go back and erase mistakes. But that shouldn't prevent someone from moving on. You just take people at their word, and hope they've learned from their mistakes and understand that it takes the spiritual power of a sovereign God to change things.

I haven't had a whole lot of experience in this particular field. But even with the few people for whom I've performed weddings, I've encountered a lot of different situations. I have met with couples who were living together before they got married, and with those who had been through divorce. I've never had anyone who didn't, at least openly, respond positively to the counseling.

I would guess that, if you weren't interested in making any kind of real change in your relationship pattern, you'd plan a civil ceremony.

[Ed Pettibone]

I think the list he cited was Alan's list of bad reasons for a divorce.

There are as many situations that come up when people are getting married as there are individual people who are getting married, and they are all on their own individual path toward spiritual maturity. My own experience with this isn't extensive, but generally, when people are considering marriage, and they want a church wedding done by an ordained minister, they've more than likely done some thinking about their personal situation and they are already thinking about making some changes.


When a divorce is involved, you can't go back and erase mistakes. But that shouldn't prevent someone from moving on. You just take people at their word, and hope they've learned from their mistakes and understand that it takes the spiritual power of a sovereign God to change things.

I haven't had a whole lot of experience in this particular field. But even with the few people for whom I've performed weddings, I've encountered a lot of different situations. I have met with couples who were living together before they got married, and with those who had been through divorce. I've never had anyone who didn't, at least openly, respond positively to the counseling.

I would guess that, if you weren't interested in making any kind of real change in your relationship pattern, you'd plan a civil ceremony.

Ed: Sandy, I too think he was taking about Alan's list. But You know Gene, he seems to think pointing out such discrepancies, is being picky.
For the short reply to your post; again I don't think we are really very far apart but I do think you are being overly optimistic about "just take(ing) people at their word, and hope(ing) they've learned from their mistakes and (they ) understand that it takes the spiritual power of a sovereign God to change things. " You of course see I have changed your comment with my additions in parentheses. I do see other ways to interpret what you wrote but I would like to know how close I am before preceding with that thought. But then also I am less than comfortable with your statement that "

S. "I would guess that, if you (one) weren't interested in making any kind of real change in your relationship pattern, you'd plan a civil ceremony."

Why would you guess that ? There are a lot of people who couldn't care less about making making any kind of real change in your (their) relationship pattern, who will come to a pastor asking to be married often in the church. Some times simply because they attended VBS there when they where in the third, fourth and fifth grade and they have considered it their church every since. And when that comes up they are ever so remorseful and promise to correct that immediately and lo and behold they do so until 6 weeks, or 6 months after the wedding. I believe it is more so for women than for men but they tend to see a church wedding or at least having a clergy person officiate as being "more legitimate".

Sadly what I am saying is that I am persuaded that for many of the wrong reasons people decide to get married and generally they will find some one to sign the license after saying a few words. but they want the more conventional trappings.

And I think pastors by and large make it much to easy.

It hasn't come up in this thread but some here already know I think being pregnant is not alone, a sufficient reason for getting married.

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed: You know Gene, he seems to think pointing out such discrepancies, is being picky.
For the short reply to your post; again I don't think we are really very far apart but I do think you are being overly optimistic about "just take(ing) people at their word, and hope(ing) they've learned from their mistakes and (they ) understand that it takes the spiritual power of a sovereign God to change things. " You of course see I have changed your comment with my additions in parentheses. I do see other ways to interpret what you wrote but I would like to know how close I am before preceding with that thought. But then also I am less than comfortable with your statement that "


Gene: I tend to be optimistic, Ed. I think it is the responsibility of a good counselor to bring issues to the top of the table and do our best to help people deal with them. I'm simply NOT the judge/jury/executioner for their lives. They live them and take responsibility for their decisions---for better or worse (as the vow states). Thanks so much for the spelling correction and I won't debate it when Webster's is involved. Just don't have time to go to Webster's at every moment of striving for spelling perfection! The main point is you understand what I mean.

Ed: Sadly what I am saying is that I am persuaded that for many of the wrong reasons people decide to get married and generally they will find some one to sign the license after saying a few words. but they want the more conventional trappings.

And I think pastors by and large make it much to easy.

It hasn't come up in this thread but some here already know I think being pregnant is not alone, a sufficient reason for getting married.

Gene: I agree that Pastors would rather collect their "gift" than take the time to counsel wisely with them. When a Psychologist gets $150-200 per hour for counseling, most Pastors get $50 (if they are lucky) for spending some 5-10 hours with the counseling and other activities. As a matter of fact, the wise Pastor, when asked, "How much do I owe you?" should respond: "What is your bride worth to you?"

I totally agree with you over pregnancy being a valid reason for getting married. In my personal life, my daughter was far from pregnant when she married, but she made a bad mistake with a "pretender" who promised to do better if she would marry him. In this case, he lied / he came from a totally crazy family where love is not a part of their picture / his demons "required" him to smoke pot to find peace even when he was calibrating sensitive high-dollar scanners for Siemens who employs him (I just hope he doesn't get caught because there goes the child support).

In a way, I wish another pastor had married them and really taken them to the realities of their choices. As her father I minimized my aggression as we counseled together. Later, our daughter has confessed to her "second thoughts" and doubts she was doing the right thing when she knew his background and his promises. Neither I nor she could offset his clever lies nor predict his return to the "crazy" of his upbringing. That's what divorce is for---and my daughter certainly deserved such after 15 years of abuse, both mental and physical. I'm just glad I didn't know all the details until after she made her decision to leave him = there might have been a "chipping machine accident!!!"