The Hoax

[Gene Scarborough]

Sandy---

You entrinched refusal to admit Criswell / Patterson / Presler had their "feet of clay," actually calls your own credibility into far more question than mine.

If facts don't pursuade you, then I can say nothing else to disuade your "CR gods of war" position!!!! Enjoy your golden dream and don't ever worry about the destruction of our Autonomous Cooperation over missions despite great differences in local churches just wanting to support Missionaries!!!!!

I won't try to bust your bubble further, but it has a great propensity to a terrible explosion which more time will provide.

[Gene Scarborough]

I commend to you a great train of thought on this wider thread---read it with better introspection:

[Sandy]

If you will re-read my post again, Gene, you will see that I pointed out Criswell, Pressler, Patterson, and those allied with them, stepped out of bounds and used denominational political tactics to gain control of the SBC. But the way had already been paved by many of those who were already in power. There were individuals in that pre-1979 SBC leadership who had manipulated the denominational structure to their advantage. Many of them had relatives and in-laws on the boards of trustees that employed them. The committees which made appointments were narrow, the presidents appointed lists of individuals committed to appointing the same old names and faces, recycling them from board to board, committee to committee, and making sure that the trustees would support the individuals they wanted in there, kept raising the salaries and benefits, and developed a hard handed bureacracy to protect the personal kingdoms they had built. They did this all with sweet smiles and nice, genteel Southern accents toward those in the pews who thought they were funding "missions." Even though a lot of evidence had mounted, pointing to things being taught in seminaries that were contrary to what the vast majority of the people in the churches believed, and wanted taught in their name, protecting their friends and their friends' salaries was what they were doing. Along came the conservative resurgence, and their tremendous popularity, which resulted in legitimate votes that turned out the former leadership quickly and cleanly. It is unfortunate that they fell into the same nepotism and influence peddling that their predecesors had made part of being SBC leadership. The difference this time around is that the leadership more closely represents the doctrinal and theological beliefs of the people in the pews.

I think Frank Page's leadership on the executive board, and some other changes that have come about in recent years, are an indication that the SBC is moving toward pushing entrenched, entitled leaders out the door in favor of those who are more committed to missions, and less inclined to play politics. But the new leadership will reflect the conservative theology that is overwhelmingly shared by the vast majority of churches and church members in the SBC.

[Gene Scarborough]

Sandy says: Along came the conservative resurgence, and their tremendous popularity, which resulted in legitimate votes that turned out the former leadership quickly and cleanly...The difference this time around is that the leadership more closely represents the doctrinal and theological beliefs of the people in the pews.

Gene says: "Legitimate votes?????" I was there in Houston when the first round happened. Church buses pulled up to the doors / disgorged hundreds who went quickly through the registration lines / clearly violated the quotas established for numbers of messengers from a given church---and the President was elected by just about that number of votes!!! Hardly what I could call "legitimate" as they quickly left and tossed ballot packets on the floor in doing so!!! I was there and where in the world were you????

"Doctrinal and theological beliefs of the people in the pews"---I served churches and can clearly say, "The doctrinal and theological beliefs of most people in the pew" are hardly open to anything other that "what my parents drilled down my throat." The vast majority of Baptists simply don't want anything new or challenging when it comes to matters of faith. If it sounds in any way "different," they soundly reject it despite many intelligent reasons to the contrary. Comfort is their main goal so "don't rock my boat!"

Sandy says: I think Frank Page's leadership on the executive board, and some other changes that have come about in recent years, are an indication that the SBC is moving toward pushing entrenched, entitled leaders out the door in favor of those who are more committed to missions, and less inclined to play politics. But the new leadership will reflect the conservative theology that is overwhelmingly shared by the vast majority of churches and church members in the SBC.

Gene says: "those who are more committed to missions, and less inclined to play politics" is totally out of the sphere of the mega church and hardly at the front of average church members. The current SBC leadership is almost exclusively mega church pastors who give little or nothing to missions and EVERYTHING to paying a 6-digit income to their entertainer / pastor and the building of the "biggest church in town." The politics is so convoluted and foreign to the average church member that they have no clue the same pastoral candidate coming from 3-5 different "well know pastors" could come from anywhere, but God---heck, they can't conceive how email and long distance phone calls now select that candidate and the "'will of God" becomes the "will of men" wanting their buddies in all the big church pulpits!

The "commitment to missions" nowadays is about overseas mission trips which can be tax-deducted so they can go to some exotic place for a couple of weeks and do a project and pass out tracts. Long-term slow and real mission results seldom come from a "church mission group" getting high on an overseas trip! I hate to sound pessimistic, but I have numerous examples of how such "mission support" fails to produce the real spiritual results with the native population AND gives superficial and emotional "testimonies" as the church group returns---to ignore their neighbors who are just as foreign within their walls and group acceptance love.

Tell me Sandy, where in the world do you know such Baptists you describe because they are foreign to me????

[Sandy]

[T. D. Webb]

[Gene Scarborough]

T.D / Sandy---

I have told you the truth / whole truth / nothing but the truth and you may choose whether to believe it of not. I really feel sorry for you in your naive outlook on things political / religious.

If I have made no progress with you by now, there is no future for anything I can share so I will discuss things with others who are not so naive. In time, the truth always comes out. It is your choice to take it of leave it. I take it---and you leave it so have a great ride into glory with a smile on your face!!!

It's Sunday, and God is still in charge. May He convict any of us seeking position over being his servant. And forgive us of our lies if we tell such. My conscience is most clear today!

[T. D. Webb]

[Gene Scarborough]

Whatever, brother Webb!!!!

Redact all you want and have a great Lord's Day.

[Alan Carter]

This whole discussion is way over the line guys. Its time to call a halt to the girly gossip.

[Gene Scarborough]