Boykin and FBC Dallas secret meeting to defeat Obama

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/conservative ... -cms-18092

Dallas Pastor Jeffress among the Damned in this cabal.

For context see Williams God's Own Party to see how it played out to defeat President Carter in 1980--same playbook; and Dochuk's From Bible Belt to Sunbelt to further explore the world of Tim Lahaye, Francis Schaeffer, Mcateer and Rogers; the history of this miasma.

[Alan Carter]

After looking over the guest list I would hardly say this was a Southern Baptist dominated meeting. Robison is hardly an "elder statesman" as they state in the article and he sure isn't a Southern Baptist. I would classify him as a mediocre televangelist and that's about it. It didn't sound like they put forth many steps to take to defeat Obama but sounds like they said a few good things too. I do however share their desire to see Obama defeated. Now we just have to pray that the Republicans put forth a good candidate.

[Stephen Fox]

Alan: I do hope you will find time during the rest of the summer to read Dochuk and Williams. See links and further explorations in the Mark Noll thread at public policy forum of this site.

[Stephen Fox]

Was news to me but one of the most interesting asides to come out of brian Kaylor's piece.

Pressler and Helms made strategic appointments for sure in the so called Conservative Resurgence.

Looks more and more like Bill Moyers PBS interview with Pressler in 87 was prophetic indeed.

http://tliministries.com/tli/index.php? ... &Itemid=56

For more background, as I mentioned to Alan Carter; see Dochuk and Williams; the John Birch Society or the Texas Regulars.

[Alan Carter]

Stephen,

Since you so desperately want me to read something please elaborate a bit more. Tell me what its about, where I can get it, and why I should want to read it.

Thanks for your assistance.

[Stephen Fox]

Kaylor has 2nd piece up on recent Meeting

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/conservative ... -cms-18098

Alan: As I said in post above info about the Williams and Dochuk books are in the Mark Noll thread at Public Policy Forum at this site.

Search there.

As an apologist for the Conservative Resurgence who is interested enough to engage the discussions here, I think it would be incumbent, imperative for you to be aware of as many aspects of the water in which the CR swam as you could.

Mark Noll is likley the preeminent scholar in these matters on the planet. He joins me in recommending these two stellar works.

I'll hope you'll join us. Would be grand if Gene Scarborough, Gourley and BDW Aaron Weaver will read with us as well.

As Williams asserts in his work, Dochuk as well, his book is a dispassionate history and analysis. Hope you will take a look.

At same time it becomes clear Pressler, Helms, Patterson and company were driven by something outside historic Baptist work even though 86 percent of white church going evangelicals voted for George W in 2000.
His work makes clear the CR was as much driven by the John Birch Society, and inflected notions of Francis Schaeffer right wing GOP strategists used for their advantage, as it was by any smokescreen of Inerrancy.
The SBC Takeover movers and shakers were driven more by Carl McIntyre, John R. Rice and Bob Jones I and II than they were by the legacy of Truett and E.Y. Mullins.

[Sandy]

Back in 1980, white, conservative, evangelical Christians didn't go to the polls in nearly the percentages that they do now. I always thought it was quite amusing that they were willing to put their names, and reputations, on the line in support of Reagan, whose personal religion was a blend of new age spiritualism, against Southern Baptist (at the time) Jimmy Carter. I'm still convinced that money rolled in somewhere to pay them for their endorsements, it always does, and I am sure corporate dollars enriched Robison and his ministry and he, like the radio disc jockeys, became pawns in their pockets. They have the means to elect politicians who will keep their subsidies coming in and their tax rates down to nothing and they'll use any way to get what they want, even it if means getting televangelists to get their viewers out in large numbers. That's why so much effort has gone into Mormon Romney, though a lot of conservative evangelicals with the ability to think are questioning that one this time around, and the televangelist crowd has lost a lot of their credibility.

It is no secret that white evangelicals are, for the most part, not Democrats. But I don't think evangelical rallies and secret meetings are going to generate any more voter registration or turnout than they already have. The GOP won in 2010 in Congress, not because they generated so many more new voters, but because they spent a fortune and turned out about 10% more of their voters than the Democrats did, and won by an average of just 2.2% nationally, much less in most cases. The GOP will have to have a real candidate, not a phony like Palin or a poser like Pawlenty or a flip-flopper like Romney or a crook like Perry to pull this off, and I don't think they're going to come up with one.

[Alan Carter]

If the evangelicals just barely turn out that should be all it will take to get that pathetic excuse we now have out of the White House. Robison is a joke in Texas and probably won't do much to stir the waters. Trust me, Obama has already stirred them enough on his own.

[Sandy]

[Dave Roberts]

This business of secret meetings at FBC Dallas is nothing new. W A Criswell was having them in 1960 because of his fear of the election of a Catholic President.

[Alan Carter]

I hate to disillusion all of you guys who think that conservatives are the only ones who have secret meetings. All Baptists have them and they have been going on for centuries and will continue until Jesus returns and cleans up this whole mess. Not all secret meetings are evil but many are filled with power, politics, and money--on both sides of the aisle.

[johnfariss]

I wish someone would let me know when the anti-CR, pro-Democratic Party, moderate Baptists are having their secret meetings. I'd like to attend. I guess I'm not on the right mailing lists.

John

[Dave Roberts]

I've never been invited to one either. All the ones I got invited to were in somebody's church, and anyone could come.

[Alan Carter]

You guys should come to Texas and then you could get invited. They are at the TBC headquarters and the Baptist Building in Dallas. The SBTC doesn't need to have secret meetings any longer since they basically control the state of Texas with the exception of Baylor.

[johnfariss]

[Dave Roberts]

I also served in NC, and I never knew of secret meetings. They were right out in the open, usually with press coverage.

[Stephen Fox]

[Sandy]

[Stephen Fox]

[Jim]

[Alan Carter]

I am always intrigued by people who write books and articles claiming to know everything about the Religious Right or the conservatives in Texas when most of the time they aren't even Baptist. Many of the comments I read on here are from people who are still offended by the Conservative Resurgence and can't seem to let it go. The bottom line about a meeting on either side of the aisle is that if you aren't there in person then you really don't know what happened. And I would imagine that most people on this blog were not in any of the CR meetings that took place so they are basically taking someone else's word for what transpired. Surely we can all move beyond that.

[Stephen Fox]

1)Brian Kaylor was present in the meeting he reported on best I understand his report.

2)Alan, instead of being so defensive on this matter, it would add to your substance on these matters if you would read Williams book God's Own Party, and the Mark Noll Review I have referenced on several occasions.

[Alan Carter]

When one is there in person, one doesn't have to read someone's book to understand it. I think we have all dissected the CR ad nauseum and its time to move on to more important things in life. There are liberals and conservatives that are doing and saying things that are much more important than something that happened years ago.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Let me jump in here:

Speaking of Texas, a poll this week showed Obama beating Perry in TEXAS!

Well, I think if we can say anything for certain about Baptists in Texas, it is that the Regents - not anyone else - controls Baylor.

Aside from that, SBTC is still a substantially smaller organization in terms of membership and finances. That's not to say that the BGCT is a healthy, robust convention. It's definitely not that. However, the SBTC is not the powerful influence in the state of Texas that you make it out to be, Alan. I don't think that even the SBTC would make that claim.

I'm all for "moving on" Alan. Yet, when it's time to move on, you return back to the liberal vs. conservative narrative. I just don't know many actual liberals - especially here in Texas. What you call a liberal, is 9 times out of 10, not that.

[Alan Carter]

Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. I think most conservatives would gladly move on except that the moderates or liberals always bring up the CR like it was the most abhorrent time in the universe. I doubt seriously the power of the SBTC but I also observe the demise of the BGCT as they can't seem to get their own house in order. I'm not a fan of either one but I also accept the shortfalls of each side of the aisle. Being a Baptist in Texas these days is not exactly a compliment. Just look at the number of new churches that don't put Baptist in their names. Should tell us a lot but I'm not sure anyone is listening.