Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

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Richard Land explains SBC Resolution Rationale

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:55 pm

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To Joe Godfrey's credit

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:18 pm

He was kind cordial and civil in the conversation I had with him at Highlands UMC. I enjoyed to conversation, I just think he is very misguided in his thinking on this matter and it worries me while he is working through the matter, lot of grand Hispanics I have come to know, many since their fourth grade year, and their families will suffer unecessarily due to the incapacity of Gov Bentley and Senator Beasley to get a handle or Christian perspective on this matter.
All the while I concede it is a Thicket.

William Thornton may be wise with his notion at HScott's blog it was beyond the SBC Resolutions committee and that process to reconcile and mighta been better if this "hot button" issue woulda never been raised in that circumstance.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Thornton reports Miller's 350 comments

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:29 pm

In the plodder blog here

http://sbcplodder.blogspot.com/2011/06/ ... dream.html

Looks like Land is tacking back toward the Dream Act
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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The Gospel at SBC Voices

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:41 pm

Thanks to Aaron Weaver and Thornton among others for spotlighting this link:

Rick June 28, 2011 at 1:53 pm
I just had a thought. (Dangerous, huh?) Wouldn’t it be great if we could hear a testimony of an illegal immigrant who was won to the Lord in America by our evangelism efforts. What if they were so convicted of their sin that they wanted not only to confess it, but also to make things right as an expression of their new life in Christ? What if, after experiencing this conviction, they voluntarily moved back to their country of origin to begin the process of immigrating to America according to the rules that have been established by the governments that God has ordained?

On the day this person LEGALLY moved to America, imagine the Christian testimony and the gospel impact it would have upon others to hear such a story of a Christian conversion leading to repentance, restitution and a glorious, Christ-honoring victory!

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Anniston Star links several opinions

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:52 pm

http://www.annistonstar.com/view/full_s ... =2nd_right

See the several links at the bottom of this piece
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Parham speaks prophetically to Rick Lance and Godfrey

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:46 pm

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/breaking-the ... -cms-18162

An Update. Whether Parham's documentary shows in Collinsville remains to be seen.

FBC and FUMC Guntersville, Alabama would be great venue, Clanton, Leeds, Winterboro and Gardendale and other places off the beaten path; Lickskillet and Dogtown/Ruhama
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Re: Parham speaks prophetically to Rick Lance and Godfrey

Postby Jim » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:53 am

Stephen Fox wrote:http://www.ethicsdaily.com/breaking-the-tradition-of-reactivity-building-moral-capital-for-immigration-reform-cms-18162

An Update. Whether Parham's documentary shows in Collinsville remains to be seen.

FBC and FUMC Guntersville, Alabama would be great venue, Clanton, Leeds, Winterboro and Gardendale and other places off the beaten path; Lickskillet and Dogtown/Ruhama

The problem with Parham and the high-profile church leaders is that they take biblical pronouncements/exhortations in the Bible that are meant for believers or for the church and try to make them apply to civil government. Usually, they also call for separation of church and state and seem never to see their own dichotomy. Something will have to be done about the illegal immigrants, so this is no diatribe against them. However, when a civil law is said by church leaders to indicate a lack of “love,” they make themselves look silly. It isn’t the business of government to “love” anybody or any group but to simply keep order and provide security. Love is the business of the church.
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Strong article; strong comments

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:23 pm

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Bham News Strongly opposes Gov SBC Deacon Bentley Law

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:57 pm

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-comm ... s_dar.html

UMC Faith Leaders Lyons and Lacey will hold another information sharing forum Monday at UMC church in Huntsville. Will Be grand if Robert Parham makes an appearance with Stephen Copley from his full page ad this Month's CBF Fellowship magazine, back page.

Stephen Copley of the UMC Foundation and Justice for Our Neighbors Arkansas.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/methodist-fo ... -cms-17625
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Bama Methodists Interesting Blog Discussion

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:19 pm

http://northalabamaumc.org/blogs/detail/573

Matt Lacey, whose wife is CBF product of Texas--I've given her the Test and she knows the key players--is holding his own with the initiative in Bama. I am hoping Lacey and Lyons and Willimon himself will network with Parham's Justice for Our Neighbors folks of Stephen Copley and Arkansas UMC foundation as Parham advertises back page of current Fellowship newsletter.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Alabama Baps Bob Terry enters the Fray/Eunie Smith

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:59 pm

http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print- ... cat_art=10

I respect Terry for giving it a shot. Still I think he coulda mentioned Beason's influence at FBC Gardendale and the fact Rick Lance counts Gov Bentley among his former fold at FBC Tuscaloosa.

And there is not much in Terry's opinion piece to suggest that he learned a great deal from Samford Proff Bass on the ministers to whom King sent the letter from the Bham Jail; or that he has an idea how Bonhoeffer mighta responded to the Bama law.

Terry seems to me to feign a little naivete about the smoke and mirrors, the wink and nods and the invitation given to Hispanic immigrants the last 15 to 20 years. There is not much of the wisdom of Harriet Beecher Stowe in his musings to correct this mess that Alabama among other states find themselves in.

I hope Terry can spend some time with RG Lyons, Robert Parham and his friends with Justice for our Immigrant Neighbors; in consultation with Joe Godfrey and Rick Lance and the Governor.

Bottom line, Terry shortshifts the Gospel a little in his piece. The Dream Act is the better path; Terry's dismissal of amnesty by virtue of a vote at the SBC is not much leadership on this matter.

It is interesting that Terry broached the name of Albert Lee Smith's widow in his opinion piece.

Would be great for Eunie Smith and Terry to view Robert Parham and Stephen Copley's immigration documentary with Parham and Copley and Hugo Black's grandson Stephen; the Governor and Rick Lance and Joe Godfrey and further explore just who it is in Alabama that needs to get right with Jesus; who should pilgrim further in their Salvation journey.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Andrew Wencl and David Rogers at SBCImpact

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:41 pm

Have done a pretty fairminded examination of the matter:

http://sbcimpact.org/2011/06/24/deporti ... -illegals/
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Pulitzer winner Rick Bragg

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:37 pm

Did not speak explicitly to immigration but would be interesting to see what this fellow who recently wrote about Collinsville --see yoknatawpha county in Faith and Practice--thinks of Deacon Bentley's bill.

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/2 ... ?p=1&tc=pg
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Richard Land vs United Methodists on Dream Act

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:17 pm

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Profile of UMC Ministers on Bama Immigration Reform

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:04 pm

Below is some background on the young UMC ministers carrying the ball with Bishop Willimon on Immigration reform

http://blog.al.com/living-news/2011/07/ ... eadin.html

One a Bham Southern Grad and the other from Samford. Lacey is married to woman with strong network in CBF
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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In Front page story in Ft. Payne Times-Journal

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:08 pm

on Immigration lawsuit that names the Dekalb County School Superintendent as a plaintiff against the Governor; in a story that says the County has the 2nd highest population of Hispanics in the State, we have this letter by Charles Green on Page 5

Editor,

Since 2000, 15 million Hispanics have immigrated into the United States, more than half of the population increase.


The Mexicans that crossed the border during the period of 1970 to 1990 have had babies that automatically became U.S. citizens. Now those are having babies. Today, Hispanics make up about 16 percent of the U.S. population. Each year, 600,000 Hispanic children turn 18 and become voters.

This increase in Hispanic voters, especially when concentrated in specific locations, will change the political landscape and have an impact from courthouses to Congress.

The supporters of an open border look forward to the day when all being equal, Hispanics and Caucasians, Mexicans and Americans, wolves and lambs, shall all, merry companions every one, promiscuously pig together; engendering a new species of man.

The opponents to Alabama's immigration law ask how can we pay for its enforcement. They say it will cost more than Alabama governments have. Illegal immigrants are costing state and local governments nationally $85 billion annually, $52 billion for the education of their children. Surely, this will pay for the enforcement of the federal law; we could also send the bill to Congress.

Charles Green,

Fort Payne



Would be grand if pronto some folks from Collinsville Baptist, FBC Ft Payne and FUMC FPayne would invite Lyons and Lacey to town first Tuesday in September to have a discussion with Robert Parham present after a viewing of his film to address the thinking of that like Mr. Green.
Firsthand 2006 or so I was met with similar thinking.
There are folks of stature and influence in the County that should take the lead on this matter, two of whom were present with me at Highlands UMC June 27 for the first convocation of Lyons and Lacey on this matter.
I think Parham, Lacey and Lyons will show if invited by folks in the County who claim Yale, UVA, Duke, Auburn Vanderbilt and UBama educations.
That is not an elitist move, but in the spirit of Rick Bragg's address to the state legislature last December; one of their own, they should address this matter and folks like Mr. Green.

Bama's Atty General Luther Strange has taken exception to language in the lawsuit.
Time for the good women in the Study Clubs in the region, the deacons and their pastors to address this matter in civil conversation with Parham, Lyons and Lacey.
Let the good folks in Ft. Payne, Guntersville, and Boaz invite them to the region.
Maybe among other things we can explore where Nick Saban and Gene Czik are on the matter now that Rick Bragg has played his hand.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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"Burglars in the Night"

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:21 pm

Last edited by Stephen Fox on Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Two letters in Two days

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:28 pm

Editor,

Alabama is not alone in this effort to combat illegal immigration, or in other words, to enforce the federal immigration law that the United States Congress refuses to do.


According to U.S, Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts, in his majority opinion of the 5 to 3 ruling in favor of Arizona's law, stated that Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, and West Virginia have passed immigration laws.

That ruling upheld Arizona's right to penalize employers who hire undocumented workers. It rejected the contention that the state was interfering with the federal government's authority over immigration. It also upheld the requirement that employers check with the federal E-Verify program before hiring workers.

We will prevail in claiming that this country belongs to us. We welcome aliens, as we have for hundreds of years, but we demand that they enter this country in the legal manner that our laws prescribe. We expect them to be law-abiding citizens, to learn our language, and support themselves. The United States of America is the freedom center of the world. We will not allow illegal immigrants, criminals and law-breakers to set the standard.

Charles E. Green

Fort Payne, Alabama


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"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Re: Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:43 am

All this is pissing in the wind until we realize it is smarter to grant hispanics instant citizenship like we do newborns / issue them a SS# / and let them pay taxes like the rest to support those who have found ways not to work.

You simply can't pay Mexicans for doing field labor when blacks are sucking off a hind tit and paying virtually nothing into a system they joined in the beginning.

Yes, they were slaves, but no Scarborough I know ever owned any!!!! Instead, we were the tenant farmer slaves of the south!!! All my dad's family found a way out of poverty called: "Education and work." That's the only reasonable solution to moving up to the East Side and living in the same nice building as did the Jeffersons!!!!

When Alabama decides to move out of the Dark Ages, there might be some hope for them joining the Union!!!! To live there now is to go back in our nation's history about 40-60 years--- as discrimination is part of the culture.
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George Wallace and Bama Immigration bill

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:10 pm

If you have any contact with Bama's Joe Godfrey, Rick Lance or Bob Terry, please get this piece to them immediately

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/will-we-resp ... -cms-18272
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
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Cynthia Tucker on SBC, Bryant Wright and Bama Immigration Bi

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:32 pm

http://blogs.ajc.com/cynthia-tucker/201 ... hia_tucker

I wonder how she would navigate Bear and George Wallace as analogous to Nick Saban, Cizik and the Tea Party
See Howell Raines, Goodbye to the Bear, www.tnr.com
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Dream Act stagnating

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:49 pm

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Charles Green writes again in Times-journal

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:57 pm

In the 2nd most densely Hispanic populated county in Alabama:

Charles Green Times-Journal | 1 comment

The Alabama State Bishops of the Episcopal, United Methodist and Roman Catholic churches has filed a lawsuit against the State of Alabama. In it they state, "If enforced, Alabama's Anti-Immi gration Law will make it a crime to follow God's command to be Good Samaritans." They further state "The Bishops have reason to fear that administering of religious sacraments, which are central to the Christian faith, to known undocumented persons may be criminalized under this law."

This is a clear violation of the First Amendment of our Constitution, and these church leaders should be held accountable.


No where in the Bible is it written we are to harbor criminals, provide them with food, shelter and transportation, or administer religious sacraments. To the contrary, the Bible is filled with decreed punishments for criminals. Christ said that if a sinner (a criminal) refuses to mend his ways, he is to be removed from the church. These illegal immigrants are guilty of violating a federal law. It is a crime to aid and abet criminals.

This is my country. I, my ancestors and my son, have fought for our freedom. It is not a haven for criminals. It is not a haven for those who enter illegally and become parasites on our economy. With their purse and wallets filled with food stamp credit cards, they drive their fine automobiles to the doctor or hospital for free medical treatment.

We have more Americans here in DeKalb County that we can afford to help, yet our churches show preference to the criminals.

Charles Green, Fort Payne

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Democracy's Banquet

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:13 pm

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


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Re: Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

Postby Gene Scarborough » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:19 am

Wisely written article, Stephen---and much needed. Here is what I find most appropriate:

But haven't we been experiencing this same kind of behavior by peeved disciples in our American democracy?

Peeved that the meal isn't restricted to the chosen few but extended to all?

Peeved that public servants have to give the meal to everyone?

Peeved that, yes, some have to assume the janitorial duties of picking up the pieces afterward?

Peeved that compassion is extended to everyone in need and healing to all who are ill, lame and diseased?

Peeved enough to threaten the well-being of all by trying to save only their own limited political and economic interests?

The analogy, of course, completely breaks down when it comes to a savior figure: Who will be the one (or ones) not only saving but also telling those peeved disciples just how little faith they have in democracy?

Maybe at least some of those who could save American democracy are the once-doubting disciples of Jesus who believe that God calls them now, even in finite and approximate ways, to work for the common good and an inclusive beloved community.

Larry Greenfield is executive minister for the American Baptist Churches of Metro Chicago. He also serves as editor and theologian-in-residence for The Common Good Network.


The analogy is based on the Great Banquet coming from a lad with 5 loaves and 2 fish then Jesus' decision to pursue his calling as God's Son even in the face of death. He had made a momentous decision and the Disciples were still thinking in terms of place and ego. When Peter tested him in the storm to let him walk on the water as well, he quickly sank as he took his eyes off Jesus and turned them to the threatening waves and water.

The Pamlico River in front of my house is 3 miles wide. It can change quickly from placid and smooth to white caps. I once took my bass boat into Bath Creek years ago with such a tempest. It almost submarined into a wave. Thank God for 2 bilge pumps and an adjustable trim tab. I had to slow down, raise the bow to the max, and continue my journey---all the while promising God I would never ever do such a foolish thing again with such a low sided-boat!

The events of the last 2 weeks in America are such a situation! Monday saw the lowering of the Treasury Bond rating by a step as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The Stock Market responded negatively and sunk just like Peter!

It is, indeed, time for people of faith and courage to step forward and propose wiser approaches to the economy and legislation. We must end politicians bought by the wealthy and rubber-stamping legislation composed by the same. We MUST insist on TERM LIMITS and a return to the volunteer representatives serving without pay to help their constituents. This kind of government was never conceived as "paid 'professionals' speaking for those who elected them."

As Jimmy Carter famously said, "We want a government as good as the citizens who elected them!" The storm is raging, but the love and compassion of Christ is out there---if we can re-discover it. He moved among the poor masses and touched them with healing and forgiveness. He certainly did not have a paid staff and a fine lemosine and private jet to lord it over them---as did the Pharisees.
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