Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

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Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:12 am

Governor Bentley is prominent member of Lance's long term stay at FBC Tuscaloosa.

Senator Beason is member of Steve Gaines former FBC Gardendale.

Ethicsdaily.com took all Baptists on the State to task including the CBF. I imagine FBC Auburn's Jim Evans will weigh in soon.

ED.com staffer Cliff Vaughn is a native of Huntsville, Al as is his sister, Carol Ann who has considerable influence in the state from her platform on the faculty at Samford.

http://topics.al.com/tag/immigration/index.html

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/alabama-gove ... -cms-18036
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Re: Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

Postby Jim » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:50 am

Stephen Fox wrote:Governor Bentley is prominent member of Lance's long term stay at FBC Tuscaloosa.

Senator Beason is member of Steve Gaines former FBC Gardendale.

Ethicsdaily.com took all Baptists on the State to task including the CBF. I imagine FBC Auburn's Jim Evans will weigh in soon.

ED.com staffer Cliff Vaughn is a native of Huntsville, Al as is his sister, Carol Ann who has considerable influence in the state from her platform on the faculty at Samford.

http://topics.al.com/tag/immigration/index.html

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/alabama-gove ... -cms-18036

When the federal government does not enforce its own laws the states have to do the best they can. Obama/Holder are suing Arizona for enforcing federal laws, not just state laws, but what else is new? This is election season and that’s all that matters, especially when the economy is tanking and Qaddafi refuses to die no matter how much Obama bombs him and whoever else happens to be in the wrong place.
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Can Maria soften the Heart of Governor Bentley

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:02 am

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=35518

And influential member of FBC Gardendale, Scott Beason. Gardendale the jumping off platform for Steve Gaines now at Bellevue.

Will Rick Lance fly Maria to Montgomery, Alabama to meet with his Deacon from FBC Tuscaloosa Gov Bentley.

Also bring in Dan Carro from the Leland Inst and Baptist World Alliance of which Timothy George is strong backer, to talk to and with Governor Bentley and Maria.

George is a big fan of Dietrich Bonhoeffer. In light of the Jenkins and McBride essays in Bonhoeffer and King, what would Bonhoeffer have Lance and George do, say to the Governor at this teachable moment this opportunity for a prophetic word in Alabama
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Re: Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

Postby Alan Carter » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:38 am

If you lived in Texas, Arizona, or California you would better understand the need for immigration law enforcement. We are drowning in debt and one of the primary causes is illegal immigration. Its time for our government to enforce the laws of the land.
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UMC North Alabama Bishop Willimon makes statement

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:34 pm

Now I guess we are waiting on Gov Bentley's Pastor Rick Lance.

Willimon the former Chaplain at Duke, has shared the Duke Chapel pulpit with Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Marney, BB Taylor, Fleming Rutledge and Peter Gomes and Will Campbell among others.

I am very proud of him for taking this stand.

http://ht.ly/5hvSJ
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Re: UMC North Alabama Bishop Willimon makes statement

Postby Jim » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:52 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:Now I guess we are waiting on Gov Bentley's Pastor Rick Lance.

Willimon the former Chaplain at Duke, has shared the Duke Chapel pulpit with Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Marney, BB Taylor, Fleming Rutledge and Peter Gomes and Will Campbell among others.

I am very proud of him for taking this stand.

http://ht.ly/5hvSJ

The Letter: As Christian ministers, however, we not only believe that this law is not in the state's best interest, but we also believe it contradicts the essential tenets of the Christian faith.

The good bishop and his colleagues, albeit with the best of intentions, stepped across the line with this statement. Even if instead of identifying themselves as “Christian ministers” they had simply designated themselves as “citizens,” they would have been out of order. The law is not contingent upon the “essential tenets of the Christian faith” but upon the mandate of the lawmakers and governor. The fact that it contradicts a religious imperative is immaterial. Nor do “Christian ministers” have any better grasp, necessarily, of the state’s best interests. If the Methodist ministers had approached the subject strictly as citizens informed by their faith but not attempting to impact that faith on the population, they would have been in order. They could simply have asserted their position as a moral imperative and that could carry weight with any legislation. As simply citizens, they could also express their notions of the state’s best interests.
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Re: Bama SBCExcom Rick Lance Immigration Law

Postby KeithE » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:26 pm

Much truth in this article from Baptist Roger Olson Immigration Attitudes as Scapegoating

Olson wrote:Now, I am not opposed to laws regulating immigration or even to deporting illegal immigrants. What I am opposed to is criminalizing humanitarian aid to them while they are among us. That is simply unchristian. What would Jesus do? Without any doubt at all he would give a ride to a tired, hot, foot weary illegal immigrant walking many miles to work in order to feed his family. Without any doubt at all he would give shelter to an illegal immigrant mother and her children. Without any doubt at all he would give food to a hungry illegal immigrant family. Yet, these supposedly “Christian” legislators and governors sign laws that criminalize Jesus’ behavior.


The Alabama law actually makes it illegal to employ, give a ride to, or give humanitarian aid to illegal immigrants. So much for the building industry and Mexican restaurants.

Scripture says we are to welcome the foreigner (Ex 22:21, Ex 23:9, Lev 19:33, Deut 10:18); not use them as scapegoats for our problems.
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SBC Resolutions Debate

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:50 pm

SBTS Russ Moore and SBC ExDir Frank Page weigh in.

Will be interesting to see how Rick Lance translates all this to Gov Bentley in Alabama.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/sbcs-content ... -cms-18060
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NPR ATConsidered Piece on Alabama Immigration

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:10 pm

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Jim Evans joins Willimon's Dissent

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:59 pm

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/forgotten-pa ... -cms-18075

Evans column ran over the weekend in the Huntsville Times and Anniston Star among other papers in the state
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Mormons join Willimon and Evans

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:07 pm

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... migration/

Religious community may lead to reform
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Can the Mormons Help Rick Lance and Gov Bentley

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:59 pm

Ms. Brooks, and I imagine Willimon and Evans say Yes:

It’s the history of Mormonism and its aspirations to modern peoplehood that give the fight over immigration particular poignancy in the intermountain west. Most Mormons take seriously the belief that we share a special bond with our fellow Mormons, one that should supercede the politics of national origin.

But the same could be said of almost any religion that prioritizes above all else human obligations to one another as children of God.

With political gridlock and inaction block immigration reform in most states and at the federal level, will it be religious leaders who play the decisive role in advancing immigration reform?

The Mormon example says yes.

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Roger Lovette very strong here

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:43 pm

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6495/9/

I still haven't seen public statement by Rick Lance
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Comprehensive Report/KeithE's Weatherly Heights

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:15 pm

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Abraham Lincoln on Bama's Immigration Law

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:27 pm

GOODHEART11:36:28I think we see that with Lincoln, too, when you look at private letters that he wrote in the 1850s. For instance, there's a remarkable letter that he wrote to his old friend, Joshua Speed, one of his few close friends, in which he talked about in the midst of the Know Nothing movement, he says, our country began with the idea that all men are created equal, it became all men except the Negro are created equal. Now, it is becoming all men except Negros, Catholics and immigrants are created equal. And he says, if this goes any farther, I will move to Imperial Russia where I can take my despotism unalloyed with the base metal of hypocrisy.

Great discussion on Diane Rehm show yesterday.

From this transcript

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2011- ... transcript

Below are some links about how it is playing in Alabama.

Candlelight march this weekend; and Forum Tuesday at Highlands UMC in Five Points in the UAB Section of Bham, near Historic Church where George Truett preached in 1940; where novelist and my friend the wife of Salvation on Sand Mtn was member for a while.

http://blog.al.com/wire/2011/06/growing ... _birm.html

I hope to make one or other of the events, maybe the Forum where I can share my Abe Lincoln quote with Hernan Prado and Bishop Willimon
And thanks to the heads up staff at Habitat for Humanity where Albert Blackwell's friend Martin England had influence here is how the news is playing in Collinsville

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/201 ... /1049/NEWS

Whether or not they will ask the question what would Bonhoeffer do since he passed through their town in April 1931, or look to see what the Baptists in Crossville, Fyffe and Sand Rock are doing to take their cue, rather than Bishop Willimon or Charles Marsh at UVA; all that remains to be seen
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Steve Gaines and Bellevue

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:45 pm

Steve Gaines was recent pastor of Bama Senator Beason, who with Bentley is now at eye of the storm of Bama immigration bill gaining national attention.

Since Gaines went from influential place in the SBC Resurgence to his wife's home church to follow Adrian Rogers, I think it fair to call on Gaines to unpack Senator Beason's recalcitrance here in light of the way Richard Land is inflecting SBC's stance on Immigration reform.

Beasley subject of featured Oped in June 22 Birmingham News

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-comm ... _need.html
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More resources for Lance and Beasley and Gov Bentley

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:52 pm

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... nstrances/

And this new film maybe they can watch in Montgomery over the weekend with the Alabama Southern Baptist ethics agency:

And a Better Life

http://www.npr.org/2011/06/22/137227086 ... etter-life

or Sinn Nombre

Maybe Beasley and Gaines, the Governor and SBC Ex Dir Lance should have a film festival with Bishop Willimon and Hernan Prado and my friend Annie Lucas Brown
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Baylor's Roger Olson on Scapegoating

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:50 pm

Olson's blog got picked up by ethicsdaily.com
He had a followup blog you can see here

http://www.patheos.com/community/rogere ... rant-laws/

I made a comment on the earlier one about scapegoating.
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A Movie of Senator Beason and Rlance and the Governor

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:36 pm

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne ... 5889.story

They can also listen to interview or read the Transcript of today's Weds Fresh Air on NPR
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SBC Voices Dave Miller take on SBC Resolution

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:42 pm

http://sbcvoices.com/immigration-and-th ... ntroversy/

Miller did say this

7) I am a political conservative, and pretty hard-core in my beliefs. But I think it is more important that we listen to the warning of our president, who told us to be Great Commission Christians, not Fox News Christians (not an exact quote). Nothing against Fox – they are my news and information source. But we evangelicals often are willing to forget that being conservative and being Christian are not the same thing.

Look at the way conservatives embraced Glen Beck who proclaims a blatantly false gospel. If he had been liberal we would have identified his heresy and excoriated him for it. But because he espoused conservative values and views, we looked past his false gospel and even tried to baptize his heresy – all in the name of politics.

There are political conservatives who are not Christians and Christians who are not political conservatives (though why escapes me). Christians need to find a way to be active and involved in politics without allowing the church to become a wholly-owned subsidiary of a political party (as some on both the left and right have done).



I commend him to a degree. Still would love for him and Russ Moore and Land and Mohler to read the several recent comments and blogs of Baylor's Roger Olson easily googled.

Maybe they can have some influence on Rick Lance, Gov Bentley and Steve Gaines parishioner State Senator Beason of Gardendale here in Bama.

A shout out to Miller.

To come clean on this matter I think you have to own up to the weight Tim LaHaye, the Birch Society, McInTyre, Hargis and Helms had on the SBC CR.

Dan Williams God's Own Party is must reading for you immediately. See the links and references in Public policy forum at this site heading Mark Noll.
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Nicaraguan Immigrant Son follows Page at Taylors

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:03 pm

http://www.trackforums.com/forum/showth ... mmigration

Jimenez was born in Greenville, S.C. and is now Page's successor at Taylors, appointed by Bryant Wright to head up the SBC Resolution.

Says sending everybody back is impractical; a notion that seems foreign to Bama Gov Bentley and Steve Gaines's Senator Beason.

Like Jimenez, UMC North Alabama Bishop Will Willimon was also born in Greenville South Carolina.

I imagine they all have their long form Birth Certificate to show Gov Bentley, Lance and Beason should they want to see them at the Forum in Birmingham this Tuesday at Highlands UMC at Five Points.
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Pictures from Candlelight March In Bham

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:09 pm

http://www.leftinalabama.com/diary/8368 ... to-diary-1

I did not see Rick Lance, Steve Gaines or Eunie Smith, Bham native and widow of Albert Lee Smith; did not see their faces in the crowd.

I think it quite likley that Pastor Jimenez, Frank Page's successor at FBC Taylors and chair of 2011 SBC Resolutions Committee; the son of an immigrant from Nicaragua, were he a pastor in Birmingham, Alabama area, could have quite likely found himself among the throng, in this Candlelight vigil.

And video of the march in this piece from Bham News:

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/06/mar ... t_new.html
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Timothy George and Alabama Immigration Law

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:09 pm

George, a supporter of the Baptist World Alliance whose Vice-President Daniel Carro led a workshop with Mercer's Proff Wilson at the Atlanta Covenant meeting of January 2009, is in an interesting vortex on the Immigration matter.
His wife has co-authored a book with Ms. McKinstry, a survivor of the bombing of the 16th Street BC in Bham in September of 1963
George, a leader of the Manhattan Declaration with Chuck Colson, also claims to be a devotee of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who drove through Alabama in 1931 with Frank Fisher, whose Father C.L. Fisher Ms McKinstry celebrates in her book on 16th Street BC.
Will Timothy George use his influence with the likes of Charles Pickering, SBC Peace Committee member, now on board with the Alliance Defense Fund, to shame Gov. Bentley and FBC Gardendale's Scott Beason into a better legacy for the aspirations of his wife coauthor's experience in Bham.
Or will he be silent with Rick Lance.

This theo-political ball is now in the court of a co-author of the Manhattan Declaration.
How will his conversation go with the Bham City Council?

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/06/bir ... ondem.html
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Bham Immigration Law Forum

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:42 pm

I attended the forum on Tuesday at the Highlands UMC in Bham. RG LYons and Matt Lacey, the young UMC ministers are on the front row in the opening shot of the ABC 33/40 report

http://www.abc3340.com/story/14994461/immigration

And here is UMC official report on the gathering

http://www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/cont ... 33&notoc=1

Lyons is a native of Centre, Alabama, and Lacey is pastor of Woodlawn UMC in Bham the home church of Bull Connor and the great UMC pastor John Rutland. Their story is told in Paul Hemphill's Leaving Birmingham.
The two pretty much ghost wrote Bishop Willimon's statement at his peculiar prophet blog.
Also at the meeting was Joe Godfrey, head of ALCAP for the state, a key leader in the Bama CR who in April 2002 hosted Judge Pressler at Godfrey's then Taylor Rd BC in Montgomery. While Pressler was intown, they had a three person lunch with Judge Roy Moore of Ten Commandment fame. Godfrey was raised at West Rome BC in 60's and 70's; mentored by SBC President Jerry Vines.

At one point Godfrey was on panel with attorney Matthew Penfield of the Maynard Cooper Law firm; one of his associates on that firm is Stephen Black, grandson of SCOTUS legend Hugo Black.

So it was an interesting mix. At one point in conversations among the gathered it was suggested Albert Lee Smith's widow Eunie, and religious right advocate Mickey Kirkland were a force pressuring Scott Beason to move the bill through the Senate.

33/40 says there are more presentations to come, July 18 in Huntsville, and later in Tuscaloosa
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Howell Scott and Thornton Weigh In

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:42 pm

My response at Scott's blog:

I understand your frustration about your geography; but I can not see where the Christian witness is to punish the most vulnerable in this situation after with wink and a nod and the massaged profit of Baptist Deacons and UMC Elders across the South, that Hispanics who have been good citizens, have done their homework and made the grades in the Public school system will be punished by badly thought out laws.
President Bush, Utah Gov Huntsman, John McCain four years ago, Chic Fil A and a host of others were on a better track with the Dream Act.
I hope you will be monitoring daily the opinion pieces at ethicsdaily.com.

As I share at Bl.com it looks like the very nature of Gospel is under discussion. With Gov Bentley longtime under the influence of Alabama SBC Ex Director Rick Lance, and State Senator Beasley a product of Steve Gaines at Gardendale, and their apologist Joe Godfrey discipled by Jerry Vines gonna it is an ongoing and significant discussion for sure.
Godfrey, who had lunch with Judge Pressler and Ten Commandments Roy Moore when Pressler spoke at his Taylor Rd Baptist Church in Montgomery 2002 is now head of a Political Morals Concerns Baptist consortium in Alabama.
His civil exchange with a Duke Divinity and Emory Div School UMC pastors at a Forum in Bham on Tuesday goes to the heart of the Question of the Gospel. Before that informal conversation, Godfrey was on panel with an associate in the law firm of Hugo Black's grandson Stephen.
What kind of Gospel is it when you tell outstanding, promising children who have been here six years and attended SBC Vacations Bible Schools and Sunday Schools, got saved and Baptized that whoops, I'm sorry, our SBC Gospel caught you in a technicality. Go Back to Mexico now, and have the Hope of Heaven when you die, but there is nothing the Southern Baptist Convention can do for you. Your time is up. Find a New Jesus South of the Border and Good Luck.
seems like you and my friend Dr. Thornton have little work to do in the New Testament and with Bonhoeffer and King and Oscar Romero and basic Biblical themes of Hospitality and Justice.
It's a thicket, granted and too long a political football but you and Thornton, Richard Land, Godfrey and Rick Lance and Charles Pickering need to take this one back to woodshed for more Prayer In the Word.


Scott's blog:

http://fromlaw2grace.com/2011/06/29/sou ... ion-ducks/
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