New NAMB President Interviews with Al Mohler

[Gene Scarborough]

I think it's pretty clear that we enjoy and are comfortable with each position. At age 65 with a lifetime of growth, I have mine.

Years ago, in my 30's I had grave doubts about women deacons, but had those relieved as---like Ed's wife---the small church ran out of men and were forced to start using women. It was a growing experience for me and I found them most up to the job---and willing to go out an minister when men just wanted to discuss the need for a new toilet in the ladies room!

I started this topic and it is getting far away from the starting point and beginning to ramble.

The whole point was to lay out Ezell as he explained the new approach to NAMB / admitted to the lack of honesty over church plants / is leading to do just about only that. Mohler is just his arrogant Mohler self. In neither of these men do I find much of a servant attitude.

Until the SBC re-learns the importance of picking leaders who have proven themselves to pastor a church supporting mission giving and setting an example, it will be a down hill slide. Mega Church Mania is a new disease which has little or no respect for the small and humble places of real service. It's about a big show and feeling good. No longer do NAMB people have to smell or walk past the street people of Spring Street. They enjoy the sweet smells and high-dollar real estate of "Affluent Alpharetta."

I guess there is a SBC Vatican after all--thought it was just a joke about Nashville and the SS Board. When you are building on golden real estate and driving fancy cars from your upper echelon house in your upper crust neighborhood, the street people and poor hardly come into your consciousness.

[T. D. Webb]

[Dave Roberts]

T D, what do you do with Phoebe, the deacon from Cenechrae and the four daughters of Phillip who preached? Not a trap, just an honest question.

[TOMPARKER]

Dave Roberts:

What I would like to know from all those that say the scriptures do not allow a woman to preach, is how do they define preach?

[T. D. Webb]

[Dave Roberts]

I'll deal with Phoebe in another post when I have more time, but if Phillip's daughters were prophesying, isn't that the same word often used for preaching. They were not deacons, they were preaching in the assembly.

[T. D. Webb]

[Gene Scarborough]

Gentlemen---

Has not this argument been gone over time and again? It is fruitless to argue Greek word minutia when Jesus welcomed women into his fold. If we are to be "little Christs," then we have no other option than to let women be whatever they are called by God to be.

Through the years from the Disciples on---and through the Early Church into today---men have wanted to rule.

When will we be honest and admit: "When momma isn't happy, nobody is happy!!!"

Say what you please about the tenses of Greek verbs or nouns---but only a fool would say, "The church would be better off without women." If you want to add adjectives like deacons / preachers / missionaries, you only make of yourself a bigger fool! Lottie Moon / Annie Armstrong / Carolyn Crumpler / Rev. Pennington / ad infinitum!

Jesus welcomed women and so should we----if we are his true followers---in my opinion, of course!

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed--

I thank your for your total homesty as you see the value of a woman called to preach the Word with integrity!!!

Give your sweet wife a pat on the back from me!!!!

I am confident she is as authentic as are you, my brother.

[Dave Roberts]

Origen, one of the great church fathers, had this to say about Phoebe in his Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans:

"This passage teaches that there were women ordained in the church's ministry by the apostle's authority...Not only that--they ought to be ordained into the ministry because they helped in many ways and by their good services deserved the praise even of the apostles."

Seeing Phoebe as a deacon is not some modern commentator's corruption. Origen recognized her ordination and attributed it to the apostles.

[T. D. Webb]

[T. D. Webb]

[Sandy]

While the term "ordination" designates those who have been "set aside" or called to service as elders of the church, and perhaps applies to deacons, I do not believe there is a separation of status that designates the paid servants as "clergy" and the unpaid servants as "laymen." And in keeping with Baptist polity, it is the local church, not the denomination, which calls its officers and assigns them their duties. I've learned that other Christians may not see the offices in the church quite the way a lot of Baptists do, and that may be what leads to interpretation difficulties regarding the role of women.

In the CMA (Christian and Missionary Alliance), deacons are servants of the church. Some are assigned to serve members, some work with visitors and guests, some set up and take down furnishings, and among them are both men and women. There is no formal "ordination" service held for them, they are simply named by the elder board and agree to serve. They don't conduct the church business or even meet together monthly. The elders do what most Baptist deacons would do. They serve as a governing board for the church, and though the church is congregational, they do have a level of authority in decision making. The pastor is considered the "teaching elder" and the head elder, as well as the overseer. These terms are used interchangeably in the New Testament (I Peter 5:1-5). The elders are elected and commissioned by the church, though not formally "ordained." Women are not selected as elders, in accordance with the scriptural instruction. However, that does not preclude women from serving in the church, or even preaching if they are gifted to do so. You don't have to be an elder to preach. Baptists tend to tie the pulpit and executive leadership of a church to the office of pastor, but it doesn't always have to be that way. And like the SBC, most women in Alliance congregations serve as they are called and gifted, do so cheerfully, and don't give a rip about being ordained or having to be in charge.

[Dave Roberts]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Speaking deacons in the CMA, Sandy wrote on Part: "There is no formal "ordination" service held for them, they are simply named by the elder board and agree to serve. "

That there is no formal "ordination" service for Deacons is also true in the majority churches affiliated with of ABC-USA. Some ABC Churches do ordain Deacons, either way They are recommended by a committee, and the recommendation is voted on by the congregation, and the appointment is for a specified term of 1 to 3 years, unlike the SBC where it is generally life time, with or with out a rotation system of active and inactive deacons. Most but not all ABC-USA churches do have Women deacons in fact at present all of our deacons are women. My resident language specialist, insist that in the Greek the biblical term is not gender specific and the translation as deaconess is inaccurate. The "deacon" may be either a woman or a man.

[T. D. Webb]

[Gene Scarborough]

Well-written article from a lady Music Minister about women and inerrency:



It is written with care and contains about everything being discussed above!!!!

And--TD---do you give any credence to the "sitz im leben" of what you cite. If not, then why did we give women voting rights in this country????