Texas baptist politics again ugly

[Ed Pettibone]

In reply to William Thorton of Winder Georgia who seems to imply that Tim Boony has nothing to say about about David Montoyas penchant for reporting ONLY negatives about Baptist happenings in Texas when he says, I cannot judge your state-of-mind for but then you presume to know Montoya's state-of-mind. Has Methodism granted to you this ability? If so, I may convert. Note I have not used quotation marks for Williams remark because I omitted his citation of a couple points Tim had presented


by Timothy Bonney » 02 Mar 2011, 11:23
Well William, my opinion of what David M. does on BaptistLife.com doesn't have a lot to do with my being a Methodist.

Anyone who is on the forum often enough will notice that David is one of those people who only posts to BaptistLife when he has dirt on someone. He isn't a regular participant in the forum. He is a hit and run poster who primarily posts here when he has some gripe about goings on in Texas Baptist life.

I am unconvinced that reporting this incident is particularly newsworthy. But even if it is, I find it interesting the Rev. Montoya only seems to post when he has something negative to share about someone. And it is that behavioral pattern that causes me to question his motivations. I can't read minds but I sure can read posts and when and how posts are made.

When I was still a Baptist I read David's blog on occasion. I was a moderator here for a long time. So having become Methodist hasn't erased my memory of the style of David's posting.

Nor does the following. ed; From Montoya;
Once again David Currie, the former director of Texas Baptist Committed and currently a trustee for Howard Payne University, has blazed a new trail for Texas Baptist leadership. He was arrest for DWI.
seem to show a deep and abiding concern for the welfare of Currie. Talk of "blazing trails" etc. rings to me of the glee of finding some dirt to post about someone Rev. Montoya doesn't like.

[begin sarcasm]B y all means folks go back to your tarring and feathering of each other. I'm sure all this division and finger pointing will attract hordes of people to your church and they will be glad that you rooted all the sinners out of denominational leadership and now have a pure and spotless church. [end sarcasm]

When you can tell me what such reporting accomplishes for the kingdom of God (rather than Texas Baptist politics) I'll be happy to revise my opinion.

Timothy Bonney
Associate Pastor
First United Methodist Church
Cedar Falls, Iowa
My Blog - http://circuitwriter.org
First UMC of Cedar Falls - http://aboutfirst.com

Ed Pettibone: We may need to explore why Rev Montoya of Mineral Wells Tx seems to include Dr. David Currie in his Blast so often.

To some in and some out of Texas, it seems to be in part related to this exerted report in 2005, from an Austin Texas paper;

Delegates, known as messengers, elected the Rev. Michael Bell, 54, of Fort Worth, giving him 1,278 votes to defeat the Rev. Rick Davis, who collected 310 votes. The election was the first major item of business during the convention's two-day annual meeting at the Austin Convention Center.

But the meeting opened on a tense moment when the Rev. David Montoya of Mineral Wells nominated Davis to challenge Bell. Davis was former director of the Center for Strategic Evangelism for the Dallas-based convention that has a membership of 2.5 million.
Prior to the election, Davis and Montoya said the convention needed freedom in selecting presidential nominees, and not rely on the influential Texas Baptists Committed to nominate unopposed candidates. David Currie, executive director of Texas Baptist Committed, nominated Bell.
Currie said the Davis nomination had nothing to do with Bell.
"They are frustrated with something in the BGCTBaptist General Convention of Texas, but they haven't talked to me to ask for my help," Currie said.

You remember Rick Davis is one who jumped on me for my objection to D.M's comment over in the thread stared by Montoya re Currie.

See whole story on that election at http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 61241.html


And before I leave let me share this. You may recall Montoya denying a few days ago that he had heard of Curries resignation from leadership in the TBC (Texas Baptist Committed of which Currie was the founder. )
Plese note this: By Ken Camp & Marv Knox Texas Baptist Standard  
Published: September 28, 2009

Texas Baptists Committed, formed as a political organization two decades ago to resist a “fundamentalist takeover” of the Baptist General Convention of Texas, has accepted the resignation of its executive director, David Currie.
Currie, a San Angelo rancher who has led Texas Baptists Committed since its inception, resigned Sept. 28, effective immediately, reported Debbie Ferrier, chair of the TBC board of directors.
About a week earlier, he announced he was stepping down to become executive director emeritus in his “Rancher’s Rumblings” e-mail newsletter. At that time, he reported the organization would move its office from San Angelo to the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
After several days of constant thinking about the transition, Currie decided to advance the process and resign outright, he said.
“I wrestled around with what it means to be emeritus,” he explained Sept. 28 from Dallas, where he had traveled to attend the fall meeting of the BGCT Executive Board. “And when I got here today, I called my wife and said, ‘I don’t want to do this,’ so I’m moving on.”
“I’ve got other things I want to do,” he added. He has been a managing partner of a 2,700-acre sheep and cattle ranch in Concho County since 1968. Since 1995, he also has been president of Cornerstone Builders, a custom home building company in San Angelo.
“I doubt I would’ve been a good emeritus, anyway,” he said, chuckling.
The Texas Baptists Committed board will appoint a committee to search for a new executive director and will seek a church in the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex to provide office space, noted Ferrier, of Houston, and Bill Tillman, TBC’s immediate past chairman, of Abilene.
With Currie’s resignation, the San Angelo office will close immediately, Ferrier said. The board will work with its staff members there—financial assistant Charlotte Caffey and administrative assistant Carol Scott—during the closing process and help them find other employment, she said.

And this comment to me in a PM on this site:

by David Montoya » 29 Sep 2009, 09:19
Very good post Ed. However, according to today's Baptist Standard, Currie has now (effective September 28, 2009) completely resigned. He will not be emeritus or any other title. I hope he is remembered for the good he accomplished.
David Montoya

Yep that was in 09/09. I had not been aware that Google could find PM's until I stumbled across this by Googling David Montoya/Currie

I have started a file from that search. It includes a coupe informative observations from Aaron Weaver aka BDW.

And Sandy; Note it seems that Currie had/has other income than what he may get form Baptist entities:
"He has been a managing partner of a 2,700-acre sheep and cattle ranch in Concho County since 1968. Since 1995, he also has been president of Cornerstone Builders, a custom home building company in San Angelo ."

[William Thornton]

Ed, if Montoya has an ounce of decency, he would send you a thank you note for keeping this topic alive. If not for you his DWI topic would have died a quick death.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Ed Pettibone]

.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

How did you go about finding that PM? I did a Google Search of an exact phrase in quotation marks and the only result I got was the Forum link that I cited.

I don't use PMs often. But that is a bit bothersome if PMs are available via a Google Search.

[Stephen Fox]

I think BDW has a point here. I expect Tim Bonney will have this post by Ed P taken down very soon if Ed doesn't volunteer. PM's are private messages. In fact this whole thread has a smell about it.

Lokcing is ridiculous. I think the whole matter ought to be taken off this board.

[Tim Bonney]

Nothing personal revealed here. And as Ed has said, the politics has gotten pretty nasty.

[Ed Pettibone]

[David Montoya]

[Tim Bonney]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

by Big Daddy Weaver » 05 Mar 2011, 22:28

Timothy Bonney wrote:Wow, you are just flying off in all direction BDW. I'm not talking about offering Currie a job. I'm talking about making assumptions about presumed guilt or innocence in a court case. Your going off in other directions entirely.

What can I say. I'm on a drug. It's called Big Daddy Weave.

Ed: I have said that for how long?

BDW: My original comment really had nothing to do with David Currie. It was a reply to the implication that "presumed innocence" is an absolute principle that should be a guide for Christians.

Timothy Bonney wrote:The real question is do you assume that Currie is guilty before he ever gets a hearing? Do you think you or I or David Montoya have the right to judge him as guilty before he ever has his day in court? I'm not asking you to offer him a job. I'm asking do you think you have the right to judge him guilty simply on the basis of an arrest?

I don't think anyone on this BL.com message board really knows anything about what occurred on the night of his arrest.

Weaver: We know he was arrested. That's all I know. Do I think it's quite possible that a guy arrested for DWI actually was driving while intoxicated? Sure. Can I make a judgment? No. Again, all I know is that he was arrested.

As I've said from the get-go, I think that's newsworthy.

Ed: So Aaron, why was there no story in the paper which published, what some one described as a mandated legal notice that the sheriff is obligated to publish. a Notice that Montoya did not find on his own but that he says some one dent to him. It may have been great stuff for the Ledbetters (Tammie and Gary). I am on record as opposing DWI. My objection was/ is Montoya's header it that other thread in this forum. And had almost any one except David Montoya or Rick Davis done the same thing I may have simply winced and moved on But those two are on record as thinking Currie ha too much influence in the BGCT and the have a history of trying to undercut him. That history started some years ago, primarily when Rick Davis supported almost solely by Montoya made a late bid for the presidency of the BGCT. Their timing was poor because they chose a year in which the assumed single candidate in keeping with established precedent, ( a precedent that I do not care for) was the First Black man who's name had ever been presented for that office and Rick was defeated by something like 4 to one. David Currie Nominated Bell who was the BGCT 1stVP, and David Montoya nominated Davis who had come out of almost nowhere.

The truth is that I do not always disagree with the basic ideas presented by either Montoya or Davis, what I object to most is their methodology.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: In that other thread, Montoya now says "You may question my motives, but my motives have nothing to do with David Currie's needs." As the readers my recall early on Montoya said "The intent of the post was to inform", but it is always easier to shoot the messenger. For the record, I do hope David Currie gets some help. "

BTW, I found this on site of a Texas law firm "The legal limit for intoxication in Texas is .08 blood alcohol concentration (BAC). However, Texas has a zero tolerance law.[b] Drivers can be stopped and cited for impaired driving from alcohol or other drugs no matter what their BAC may be." [/b] See http://www.alamodefense.com/dwi-limit.asp

[Sandy]

You can't be cited without evidence of impairment. Few DWI cases need to go to a jury trial, they are usually slam dunks.

David Currie was one of those "prominent" Baptists who had his fingers in a lot of pies and his nose in a lot of business, and his name in the Baptist newspapers. Because of that, a DWI arrest attracted a lot of attention. Prominence and self-importance has a tendency to attract attention whenever you do something. If it happens that he does wind up being declared not guilty at a trial, I would expect Montoya to duly report that as well, though I think the way Texas law is written, the public report from the Sheriff doesn't get recorded unless the case is settled. He either pled guilty or no contest and paid the fine.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

[David Montoya]

Ed, this is taken from a website that lists the penalties for DWI:

First Texas DWI Offense:

Texas Criminal Status: Class B Misdemeanor

Jail: Minimum 72 hours, or 6 days if open container is present.

Texas DWI Fines/Costs: Fine not to exceed $2,000. Other administrative and evaluation fees may be assessed. TX imposes a “surcharge” for a DWI on top of regular fines. The surcharge is $1,000 per year for three years for a first DWI offense and $2,000 if the person’s BAC level was double or more the legal limit (.16). Texas License Suspension: Yes, 1 year. Attending DWI Education class may avoid this. Occupational license may be granted based on need.

Violation of Zero Tolerance Law: N/A

Texas Conditional License: A conditional, or occupational license, may be issued based on "essential need" and usually only when the court orders an offender into alcohol assessment/rehabilitation. Offenders who have been granted occupational licenses within 10 years are ineligible. For definitions of “essential need”, see Transportation Code Section 521.241.

Vehicle Impound: None

Texas DWI School: First time offenders must complete a 12 hour DWI Education Program within 180 days of when probation was granted or risk having their license revoked.

Texas Probation: Terms of probation decided by judge or jury.

Texas Community Service: 24 hours required, but no more than 100 hours.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Thank you D.M. for the answer to my question to sandy. Question: Sandy, in Texas are DWI's not generally classified as misdemeanors if there is no property damage or personal injury?

D.M's. Answer: First Texas DWI Offense:Texas Criminal Status: Class B Misdemeanor

[Dave Roberts]

Is this known to be alcohol related? We have in VA and other states the same charge that can be produced from prescription drugs or illegal drugs.