Kevin Ezell Announces New NAMB Plan

[Gene Scarborough]

[Gene Scarborough]

Two things concern me in ths:

(1) The assumption that areas of American and Canada are "lost." They are no more "lost" than they were in the 80's when I was in the first Partnesrhip Evanglism by the HMB to Binghamton, NY, and surrounding areas. There were churches on every corner of Binghamton. They were Catholic / Presbyterian / Methodist / American Baptst / etc. as well as those we call "sects" like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. In fact, most SBC works were considered in the "sect" category by average citizens.

(2) The early terminations of some 90 people will save millions of dollars = total creative accounting! He takes the total of salaries over the years of their future inactivity in a lump sum of savings. The reality is that experienced and creative people are immediately put to the side when their minds and experience would be invaluable to any future "creative thinking."

His mentality here is that of Corporate America = get rid of the highly paid and expesive personnel in favor of throwing more work to people who are overworked already so that figures on budget sheets look better---BUT their constiuency are more and more poorly served and helped!!! Let's just hire immigrants who can't speak English and steet people who will work for drugs if "saving money" is the only goal.

[johnfariss]

Gene, I share your concerns and for the same reasons.

In the '80s, I friend I went to seminary with was hired by the HMB relative to a church plant in a small town somewhere in western Pennsylvania, the area his wife was from. He was told the area was largely lost, but when he arrived, he found that there were active Catholic, Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian, ABC, and a few other churches, such that the population was anything but unchurched. One can argue all day about the spiritual state and salvation of Catholics and some others, but the bottom line is the town was well-churched, and the people were heavily invested in those churches. In order to accomplish what the HMB wanted he not only had to establish a new church, but convince people that his dinky, under-resourced little start in the living room of a rented house was somehow better than the established their parents and grandparents established and they were attending. He gave up.

I remember when Sears fired their experienced, commissioned sales staffs, back I think it was in the 70s or 80s. In their place they hired a bunch of kids on straight salary. Sears retail stores nearly went under, their sales plummeted so. They either rehired or developed new sales people, and gave them incentive to sell by putting them on commission. A friend who works for them now, in appliances, on commission, tells me they are rumblings about the same things happening again. Seems like Sears has to learn the same lessons over about every generation. Will NAMB be any different I wonder?

Now I am first to say that NAMB (or whoever) should fund fewer starts and fund them better. I've been there, about 20 miles north of Wilmington, NC. I was a third permanent pastor (plus at least as many interims) at a two-year old plant. Through BSCNC, we got, I think it was $300 or so a month the first year, half that the next, and then nothing. I later was told that this, like most of these starts, were not expected to survive anyway. I say do the homework better, locate places that really need a new church, then fund them at a level that can hit the ground running, with a pastor, maybe a youth minister, maybe even a musician, that has a realistic chance of (1) reaching people in a targeted way rather than a shotgun approach, and (2) will reduce the trauma of transitioning from a small intimate group of friends worshipping around a coffee table to a totally different larger group dynamic.

And don't even get me started on the topic of revitalization and discipleship--I don't have time.

John

[Gene Scarborough]

John--

We are both citing reality over spiritual pretense with the SBC. Their take is that anything not SBC is somehow inferior and "not spiritual." Your description of the Wilmington, NC, new start church is telling me we just want to show numbers of new starts rather than the quality of such.

Ezelle's version of church planting as used by him in his church was to have "satellite" congregations with staff a part of the main church and numbers reported to enhance the size of the mega church he pastored. I think that's a bunch of hooie! It bespeaks control over autonomy and variety.

I pastored (in the 80's) the Noondy Baptist Church located in the fast grow area of metro Atlanta. It's location was (and still is) about 3 miles south from Johnny Hunt's Woodstock mega church. In essence he was called to the FBC in downtown Woodstock and quickly moved to push them to a new campus where his mega could grow and put on a better show beside the most heavily traveled 2-lane state highway north of Atlanta. A group of the older members with a sense of tradition remained in the old facility and had hard feelings over Hunt's takeover and control.

Below are my observations about a wiser approach to churh growth we used to know in SBCland.

[Gene Scarborough]

My father was Associate DOM of the Atlanta Baptist Association when that city became the fastest growing city in America in the 50's and through today. They adopted a wise strategy in church planting. First they went to the urban planning agency of each County. From this they got projections on areas of future growth--in Atlanta it was a 10-year cycle from rural countryside to wall-to-wall subdivisions and shoping centers. Knowing where growth would be, they approached Baptist landowners to see if they might sell a 5-10 acre plot to the Association for future growth at a reasonable price. In some cases, the purchaser was a large established Baptist Church which wanted to found a new Mission Church.

They would encourage the mother church--sometimes 2-3 willing churches--to encourage a group of their members living in the area to form the nucleus of a new church and help with funding the first building as well as the Pastor. Usually within 1-3 years the church was growing and on its own with whatever kind of ministry the congregation liked. Land costs were skyrocketing so a part of the land could be sold to business or subdivision developers for enough profit to start another new church or build another building without having to raise all the funds from the congregation alone.

It was an exciting time of church growth in Atlanta for Baptists.

Other more hierarchical denominations like the UMC or Presbyterians or Episcopalians used denominational money to do what you describe with a large facility and adequately paid staff. The Catholics built churches wherever a community was because many northern Catholics were moving in. In essence, churches of all kinds grew along with the community.

More below---

[Gene Scarborough]

The concepts of Corporate America seem to be invading church work as well. Ezell is using the "slash-and-burn" approach to potential future growth. More wise, to me, is the model of "when we hurt with the economy, we keep as many as possible with reduced incomes commenserate with the particular store." Better to retain good employees as much as possible with their experience than to put them on the street and hire a new bunch at minimum costs---who know little or nothing about either the business or customers. To me this is doing business with a heart for more than the dollar.

Corporate America and Mega Church both go for the image of "big" drawing people. They assume "big" means "savings on basic items sold at lower prices from the manufacturer who prices by quantity." Suddenly all the mom-and-pop stores dry up as stupid former customers are willing to wait in a long line to "save a buck" with no service attached to it. I hate Wal-Mart and long lines. When I translate what I am making while working against what time it takes me to "save a buck," I can't save enough at Wal Mart to make up for the time spent hunting and waiting in line. How many people want to hike 1/4 mile to get from the edge of the big parking lot at the mega church to the sanctuary???

With size there is also a loss in personal ministry by the Pastor. He is a great entertainer on Sundays, but don't ask him to visit your mother in the hospital--much less you as a church member unless you are a big giver!! He is too busy on out-of-town engagements and book writing.

For good church growth, I think we need to realize every town is not "lost" nor are little Baptist churches everywhere going to provide the level of ministry and size many people want. It's no fun to struggle just to pay the light bill on the trailer church when another kind of church is within eyesight with a good Youth Group and Choir already there. More and more, denomination does not matter that much to people who just want to be inspired and enjoy their Sunday time of worship.

[Sandy]

Mega churches are part of the reason church planting and evangelism has slowed down so much across North America. They attract people who are already Christians from other churches to the smorgasbord of internally focused programs and ministries they offer. These people primarily become pew sitters whose entire church experience revolves around the hour and a half they visit the campus on Sunday morning for the "show." Removing individuals from the smaller churches where they've been involved in discipleship and ministry, and more likely to be involved in relational evangelism, and placing them in the warehouse to enjoy the look and feel of the stage managed production called "worship" is exactly why most SBC churches, along with a lot of others, have seen a downturn in baptisms and overall participation. I don't think putting a denominational entity like NAMB in the picture is going to help.

I've discovered, since relocating to Western PA, that the area is not lacking in either total number of churches and those involved in church, or in conservative evangelicals. The denominational culture is somewhat different than Texas, in that there aren't nearly as many Southern Baptists, or Baptists of any brand for that matter. Most of the Baptists here are independent, or reformed, and they are outnumbered in the evangelical community by a couple of different kinds of evangelical, conservative Presbyterians, the Christian and Missionary Alliance and Bible churches. There are some large, non-denominational congregations as well, with the megachurch flavor, and some of them are genuinely "megas" in size, and a fair number of Assembly of God. The Catholics are predominant, especially in the cities, though I'd say that their percentages and numbers are probably similar to what I observed in Houston, which is the seat of an archdiocese and archbishop. Per capita, there are probably more evangelical conservatives here as a percentage of total churchgoers than in Texas, and perhaps more churchgoers here as well. In fact, the majority of Southern Baptist churches in this area are congregations that have switched from ABC-USA affiliation.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Sandy thanks for the report of what you are finding church wise in your new home area. I am a bit bit disheartened to see you statement that "In fact, the majority of Southern Baptist churches in this area are congregations that have switched from ABC-USA affiliation." What sort of number would that involve? And do you have a feel of how long this shift has been going on?

[Gene Scarborough]

One thing all 3 of us might note is that the mega church is a harlot with no conscience in drawing people from smaller churches just to have great numbers.

When Charles Stanley was turning FBC Atlanta into a mega with bus ministry drawing in great numbers, those buses went through every churched community in Atlanta to pick up children. It mattered not that a local church was in eyesight of that child and family. These churches were far from dead and had valid ministries and a pastor who was more than a showman.

Many children went because a clown was driving the bus or a cowboy. For me, that is luring innocent people for number counts over real and caring ministry and salvation. Do you think some of those children accepted Clarabell as their personal saviour?

[Sandy]

[Gene Scarborough]

Sandy--

It sounds like you are describing "recent developments in suburban religion."

As I read your analysis, it sounds like the trend there is toward mega church outlook: large / conservative / entertaining / not locked into a denominational setting unless it contributes to the image they want.

I am particularly interested in the Jerry Falwell influence.

What is a typical family there like? From a steel poducing family / involved in the steel industry / executive or blue collar / in other words, "Why do these kinds of people find such an appeal in the kind of churches growing there?"

[Sandy]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

That was a beauty of a description for current popular religion = all about pretense and show over stepping across social and racial lines to welcome the poor and needy---as did Jesus!

I have noticed through the years that quick grow mega churches find their place only in quick grow urban suburbs---and no where else! Regardless of the skills of the pastor and staff they are in the "right place at the right time."

A good High School friend of mine still lives in the Atlanta suburbs near Tucker. I-285 passes beside the Rehoboth Baptist Church and my father is buried across the street. It's a perfect place for his earthly remains to rest: beside his 2 great loves--a Baptist Church and the fast-moving Interstate Highway. However, Rehoboth is struggling now that the fast grow suburbs have moved some 60 miles outside downtown Atlanta. Rehoboth was at the 15-mile point in the 60's. In fact, were it not for a growing black congregation renting the facility alongside the old timers wondering "what happened," the church could not pay its utility bills for that big sanctuary.

Ezell is promoting a church planting model where every new start hopes to become a mega. The reality is that there is only room enough for so many megas and their time passes as the suburbs move down the road by miles and miles.

I don't think Ezell or the SBC has a clue how it grew in the past with cooperation over competition / ministry over show / reaching out to the poor and needy with Mission Centers and Language Missions to the new immigrants.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

I am not saying all mega churches are bad---just that the SBC is obsessed with them and expects the mega status is proof of God's blessing and less than that proof of spiritul death.

It is more important to look at quality of ministry over simple size, in my opinion. I have used the old ratio of 1 minister to every 300 members as a good ration keeping the quality of relationship between pulpit and pew.

I think Jesus give us a good picture as he visited the Temple at Jerusalem with its moneychangers waiting to do business. The Temple had become a big business over a place to meet and worship God. Just take his observation, "You have turned my Father's house into a den of thieves," as the measure of effectiveness of any given church.

[Ed Pettibone]

["Gene Scarborough"]
Ed---

I am not saying all mega churches are bad---just that the SBC is obsessed with them and expects the mega status is proof of God's blessing and less than that proof of spiritual death.

Ed; Gene, can you give an example of this obsession. 260 megas out of 37,000 churches, hardly seems observe. Again Catholics have 3,000 churches in the US with over 2,000 in weekly attendance. And perhaps you can point me to where a SBC leader or entity has written or has said that less than 2000 members in regular attendance is proof of Spiritual Death .

G: It is more important to look at quality of ministry over simple size, in my opinion. I have used the old ratio of 1 minister to every 300 members as a good ration keeping the quality of relationship between pulpit and pew.

Ed: And Gene where did that "Old ratio" come from. Some mega churches with 3,000 members indeed have 10 or more ministers on staff . I was in a church of 350 where we had a Pastor, as Associate Pastor both with earned Doctorates and a Combined Minister of Music/Education with an under graduate degree in Music and a M.Div/CE. And since you tossed out the term how do you measure "quality of ministry"?


G. I think Jesus give us a good picture as he visited the Temple at Jerusalem with its moneychangers waiting to do business. The Temple had become a big business over a place to meet and worship God. Just take his observation, "You have turned my Father's house into a den of thieves," as the measure of effectiveness of any given church.

Ed: There indeed was business being carried on in the Temple court yards, how big a business, I am not sure. Please explain to me just how "You have turned my Father's house into a den of thieves," is "the measure of effectiveness of any given church", I do not see the correlation. In that quote Jesus was addressing the money changers and merchants who had no official part of the temple worship.