More from Al Mohler = Extremism on Abortion

[Gene Scarborough]

"Brilliant" Al Mohler hits Abortion in same way as Evolution We have pet issues obsessing current SBC leadership = homosexuality / Creationism / Abortion. Here is Mohler's latest post:

[quotePosted on Jan 21, 2011

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP)--Saturday will mark the 38th anniversary of the infamous Roe v. Wade decision that opened the floodgates for abortion in America. On Jan. 22, 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court handed down the decision, declaring that women have a constitutional right to an abortion. Hard as it is to imagine, the justices in the majority really believed that their decision would end the national debate over abortion. Not by a long shot.

Nearly four decades later, the argument rages on -- and so does the carnage. The national abortion rate is over 20 percent. Just last week it was reported that the abortion rate in New York City is over 40 percent, and among African-Americans in that city, nearly 60 percent. In other words, an abortion industrial complex now claims over a million unborn lives each year. The carnage just continues.

In recent days, two horrifying accounts of abortion have gripped the human conscience. From Australia, news came of a couple who had aborted twin boys, just because they wanted a baby girl. Having three sons already, the couple aborted the twins because they want a daughter after the death of a previous baby girl who died shortly after birth.

The couple is now appealing to a legal tribunal, demanding the right to use gender selection in the course of an IVF procedure. Australia, unlike the United States, has laws against gender selection. The couple is pressing for an exception.

The abortion of the twin boys precipitated an international outcry, with headlines carrying the news around the world. But, even as millions were morally troubled by the account, many were unable to muster a moral argument against the abortions. Why? Because the logic of abortion has been so widely accepted in the larger society.

The very idea of gender-selection abortions is abhorrent, and most people would almost surely argue that such abortions should not be allowed. But the logic of abortion rights demands that a woman be recognized as having a right to an abortion at any time for any reason or for no reason. Once you accept abortion as a moral option, it is virtually impossible to preclude any abortion for any reason. The Culture of Death is built upon the logic of abortion on demand. Once the floodgates were opened, it became almost impossible to stem the tide.

On Jan. 19, the Associated Press reported that a Pennsylvania doctor had been charged with eight counts of murder in the deaths of one woman and seven babies, "who were born alive and then killed with scissors."

The description of Gosnell's Women's Medical Society sounds like something out of a Stephen King novel. Investigators found bags and bottles containing aborted babies and parts of babies. District Attorney Seth Williams said that Dr. Kermit Gosnell "induced labor, forced the live birth of viable babies in sixth, seventh, eighth month of pregnancy, and then killed those babies by cutting into the back of the neck with scissors and severing their spinal cord."

Williams described Gosnell's clinic as a "house of horrors." Gosnell, it turns out, made millions of dollars by performing thousands of abortions, including late-term abortions. According to the prosecutors, Gosnell performed "as many illegal late-term abortions as he could."

Dr. Gosnell has been charged with multiple counts of murder, and for this fact, we should be thankful. But the reality is that what Dr. Gosnell did is just a more graphic display of the horror inside every abortionist's chamber.

These two cases illustrate the pattern of moral confusion found among the public. News of the "house of horrors" in Pennsylvania brings prompt moral outrage, and understandably so. But is the abortion clinic on the corner, established for the purpose of killing unborn children, any less a house of horrors?

The couple in Australia openly admitted aborting their twin boys because they want a daughter. Millions around the world seem outraged by their decision, but having accepted the basic logic of abortion, they are hard-pressed to define when any abortion demanded by a woman might be unjustified and thus illegal.

The Christian revulsion over abortion and the destruction of human life is based in the knowledge that God is the Author of all life and of every life, without exception. Abortion is the business of death, and it is the great wound that runs through the nation's conscience. These shocking accounts may sear their way into the nation's collective conscience, but unless the basic logic of abortion rights is overturned, such accounts will erupt again and again.

Once we buy into the logic of abortion, there is no end to the trail of tears. In the case of the Australian couple, a professor of medicine commented that they should be able to select the gender of their baby after aborting the twin boys. "I can't see how it could possibly hurt anyone," he said.

What about the twins?
--30--
R. Albert Mohler Jr. is president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. This column first appeared at AlbertMohler.com.



][/quote]

[Gene Scarborough]

"Whee dogies," was Jed Clampet's favorite expression after landing in LA, rich from crude oil discovered on his land. That translates to,

I think most of us have a "go with caution" view of Abortion. It is NEVER to be taken lightly, but women have a right to control something about the 9 months of pregnancy coming to them from, hopefully, a married and trusting relationship and their desire to bring a child into this world in love and maturity.

Al's approach to this issue is one of the most extreme I can imagine. Moreover, he goes to Australia of all places for his extreme example. There is little or no logic. There is plenty of inflamation he clearly reflects from the anti-abortion side of life. There is absolutely NOTHING about women who are raped / have their health endangered / simply cannot afford to take on the expenses when the man enjoyed his pleasure and ran away to seduce another woman and fail to get himself clipped so he does not father children he won't support emotionally nor financially.

NONE of us would advocate killing a viable fetus!!! Certainly we would not advocate ripping any baby from a womb and using a pair of scissors to sever the spinal cord as that child begins to breath and cry. These extreme examples have nothing to do with real logic or the rationale of Roe v. Wade. It's bottom line is to give women a choice and to allow for compasionate termination of pregnancy IN THE FIRST TRIMESTER. Our law is sensible. Mohler's approach is that of a caveman insisting his campfire story of Creation must be belived or he will bash your brains out with his club!!!

Anyone wondering why I am advocating distancing ourselves from such a mentality has another good example of another "Contemporary Ancestor." H.L. Menken used this laughable way of describing the Conservative mind set of his day.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Gene, many here have heard me say that in regard to the abortion question I prefer to not be known as either pro abortion or pro life, but Pro reason. Therefore I think you and I are in general agreement on this question. But here again Mohler is "preaching to the chior". If you really want to break from he and others in the SBC leadership why follow him even in the press, why quote him to people who may or may not have seen the same source? And be aware that on this one question you may find some here who side with Al. You will find that he generally salts his theme with a good point or two. Shoot, I think I probably agree with him on the question of gender selection via abortion.

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed--

I'm glad to know we are in the reasoning crowd. Where I have the greatest problem is those who pretend they have absolute answers to all questions when many variables are involved.

For any man to dictate to women what they must do with a pregnancy seems a lot arrogant to me---and Mohler is not known for humility any more than Patterson or other blow-hard mega church Preachers.

I have heard today from Stephen Fox about seeing a group of well-meaning Catholics take off for protest claiming from the moment of conception a soul exists which needs total protection. However, if God was in the "total protection of souls" business there would never be a miscarriage.

Many of these matters should never be debated from an ideological standpoint with absolute answers before the situation is even considered. We walk in faith sometimes more than sight. I would rather lean to faith---than think man has all the answers.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

I'm actually very sympathetic to Mohler on the abortion issue. I think he takes the abortion issue to the extreme, ultimately opposing most (all?) birth control methods. I don't accept that logic.

I agree with Ed that Mohler often makes a decent point or two. But things go down hill for Mohler when he takes his arguments to the extreme (see his stance against birth control and his Young Earth Creation-ONLYism).

I think it's interesting to see how attitudes toward abortion rights are changing and the differences in those attitudes among older and younger generations - the younger generations are more likely to identify as pro-life and support restrictions on abortion.

[Stephen Fox]

What frustrates me about BDW on the abortion issue is he shows no evidence of wading through karen Gomley's thinking on the matter, nor has BDW on anyone at Baylor, nor David Gushee to my knowledge taken Tim George to task on misuse of the Barmen Declaration as arsenal for George's abortion politics of the Manhattan Declaration in particular.

That said, I think BDW is doing reputable job at ABP news taking Jim Denison to task on the paradox of religious politics and continue to appreciate BDW's review of Truett in 2009 Baps Today.

He and Gene Scarborough both could deepen their thinking with a considered study of Marilynne Robinson on Mohler's fascination with Evolution; and both will find an exploration of the implications of Ginny Brant's new memoir of the religious political pilgrimage of her Father Harry Dent worth their time.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Come on now, Foxy. I did take T. George to task for his chicken little-esque Manhattan Declaration. That Declaration - the section on abortion - was pretty dang similar to the Abortion Pamphlet you speak of, correct?

T. George was intentionally vague in the Manhattan Declaration in his call for civil disobedience. His Christian persecution/the world is ending, rise up Christian soldiers tone is troublesome. He's made his bed with some ideologically dangerous group of folks.

Nonetheless, T. George is an interesting fella and his continued involvement in the BWA is quite confusing...

[Gene Scarborough]

Gentlemen--

I'm glad you are joining in the discussion!! Both of you have excellent analytical minds. Stephen just tries to drive all of us to those special people he keeps naming. I don't think anyone has a corner or final say on these main Fundamentalist issues. In fact, they keep on keeping on like a bunch of monkeys climbing at tree = the higher they climb the more we see their tails!!

I am concerned with the mindless conservatism floating among those born in the 70's onward. I have a sister who is one of this generation which is 12 (in her case) years younger than me (born 1946). I was reared on Roy Rogers and Leave It To Beaver. Those around me were throwing down their Bibles and picking up their Playboy magazines and smoking some pot. By the time my sister came along, everyone was trying to outdo the other with drugs, sex, and rock 'n roll. Now they are all trying to out do themselves in rectitude and overblown "righteousness." It's just too fakie for me!!!

In addition there is a control and uniformity issue coming from their Kindergarten rearing. Where I played in the outdoors and pretended to my heart's content, my 12-year-younger sister had to "hold the rope" with her little friends to go to the bathroom. It has changed our outlook and I'm not sure it is for the better when an Al Mohler pumps up the volumn and acts like all abortion is a 4th term one with spinal cords being cut to kill the viable fetus.

IT JUST AIN'T SO!!!!

[linda]

My heart breaks for women who learn only after they are pregnant that the child faces a horrible death, such as Tay-Sachs. (Not sure the spelling.)

Both she AND the father face a truly hellish decision.

But aborting the inconvenient child is quite another thing.

And honestly, I fail to see how being aborted and cut limb from limb early on beats late term abortion in any way.

As to a woman's right to decide: I fully support every woman's right to decide not to have sex. I support her right to use non lethal birth control (and I reject the thought the use of the pill is always a lethal form.) But if she freely chooses to have sex, knowing birth control can fail, I believe she has chosen to deal with the results. As has the father.

And my personal hunch is that men who support a "woman's right to choose" really are hoping to be let off the hook by her choice.

Sorry for ranting, but had my son been conceived by his birth mother just a few months later, she would have had him cut limb from limb and disposed of. As you can imagine, that pushes my hot button.

[Gene Scarborough]

Linda--

It's so nice to have a woman's perspective on this. I do see at the end a horriffic description of abortion. That would be the result of a D & C procedure. Were it not for Roe v. Wade that procedure would be carried out in a back room somewhere with a coathanger and the high risk that the woman might bleed to death or become infected.

Somewhere in all this is more solid ground to keep unwanted children from suffering in a home where they know it. I personally prefer Adoption. That, too, has its horror side when people don't want to adopt a child and it has a short time until the child becomes old enough that prospective parents aren't interested.

I like what you say about unprotected sex and irresponsible men seeking only the thrill without an equal responsibility to stand beside a female who bears that child. She suffers a pointed finger of judgement / the possibility of having to drop out of school / parents and relatives who shun her.

Things happen and it requires more than an academic and remote position on this. It certainly needs no extremism which Mohler is offering only. What happens if his daughter is the one who got "knocked up?"