Paige Patterson Trying to take Association Building

[David Montoya]

I have a copy of a letter from the moderator of Tarrant Baptist Association stating that Paige Patterson wants to take away the property from Tarrant County Baptist Association because they will not dis-fellowship Broadway Baptist Church. See a copy of the letter at Tim Dahl's blog: http://tikesbestfriend.wordpress.com/

What is Patterson thinking!

[Neil Heath]

I suggest Patterson is thinking the way he always has, namely: "if you won't do what I want, I'll do whatever it takes to get rid of you. Cooperation is always an option, but only as long as you cooperate with me on my terms."

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Tim or David,

What's the relationship between Tarrant BA and SWBTS? Who owns the property and what's been the agreement between the two? Does TBA have an office on SWBTS campus?

Never been to Southwestern myself - but making plans to visit the library in the next week or so to view the TB Maston Collection. Going to make my first trek to the Baptist Building to see what the Texas Baptist Historical Collection has too. Going to top it all off in a couple of weeks with a trip to Nashville to SBCworld to do some research.

[Sandy]

I don't know the details of the arrangement between Tarrant Baptist Association and Southwestern, but the association's offices are located on the campus. They share a building with the Lifeway Book Store which also provides textbooks to students. They had moved in there I believe the year before I became a student there in 1987. As I understand it, the building belongs to the seminary, and the space was leased long term to the association and to Lifeway. To me, it seemed that the space used by the association was somewhat cramped and small, and not in the greatest location. If finances are the issue, and the space was relatively inexpensive, I'm sure there are a lot of churches in the association with plenty of empty space that could be used as an associational office.

[wesleyshotwell]

Tarrant Bapt. Association building is located next to the seminary. It has its own building. Though it is next door to the bookstore, it does not share space. The Association holds the deed (owns) both the building and the land it sits on. This was accomplished by a special arrangement with the seminary, first in 1982 when the association moved to the location. In 1982 the seminary leased the land to the association for 99 years at a minimal cost, if any. The association built a building there and has always owned the building.

In 1997 the seminary gave the land to the association (with a reverter clause) in order to avoid liability for the property taxes. There was an agreement signed that year between the two parties, the details of which are way to numerous to list here. In short, there was agreement for mutual benefit by the relationship. If either party decides that the relationship does not live up to the agreement and wants to end the relationship (ie. give the assoc. the boot), it goes to arbitration to be decided if the agreement has been broken.

The seminary is claiming the association has broken the agreement by not actively placing students and professors in leadership roles in churches and other stuff the seminary decides they don't like. It is all somewhat nebulous. The association received a letter several weeks ago (not the letter circulating on line right now) from the seminary saying they were unilaterally evicting the association, listing a couple of nebulous things that offended them. In the second to last paragraph of the letter it states: "Finally, since the Association knowingly allows member churches to continue in the Association that are known to either have been found no longer in friendly cooperation with the SBC or practicing in such a way that is contrary to the Seminary and the SBC, the Association is in violation of Subsection A of Section 6."

The letter then proceeds to evict the Assoc. off its own property. No mention of arbitration. Those are the facts. My opinion of this sorry mess cannot be said in words appropriate to this site.

Wesley

[Tim Dahl]

SWBTS has had an eye on that land for a few years now. If you were to get a look at their master plan, you would notice a welcome center sitting on that piece of land. They approached our previous DoM a few years ago about buying TBA out, but they were strapped for cash. This is just an easy way for them to get the land, or so they think (imo).

Tim

[Sandy]

The placement issue is an interesting subterfuge. It appears that the bottom line is the association and its relationship with one particular church. There are literally hundreds of seminary students in church leadership all across the Tarrant Association, probably more than half of the church leaders and paid staff members are seminary students. And I've never known that to be an associational responsibility. With a seminary of more than 2,000 students sitting in the middle of the association, the placement office would probably field more direct calls from churches than any other in the country, except perhaps Louisville.

I can't imagine who else, other than the seminary, would be in the market for that property, and since they are creating the demand for it, this appears to be a ploy to get the price down.

[wesleyshotwell]

Get the price down? The letter from the seminary says nothing about compensation. They are simply going to take possession on June 4. I recall a commandment that addresses this issue. The story of Naboth's vineyard keeps running through my mind. I hope Paige remembers that story did not end up well for Ahab. Of course, it didn't end well for Naboth either.

Wesley

[Blake]

I think the Messengers at this summer's annual meeting should start demanding major budget cuts at our seminaries to curb frivolous spending on vanity building projects.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Do they ever sing They will Know We Are Christians by Our Love in the SWBTS chapel ? 2nd question; Given the title of this thread, what if any statement had Paige Patterson made on this. Yes I know he is president but the trustees are charged with doing the business of the seminary.

And i want to thank Wesley for bringing some solid information to this discussion. I have long found him to be one of the more informed people posting on this site.

[Jerry_B]

Typical bullying tactics from I Think I'm the Pope Patterson. And again they drag out there are "homosexuals lurking in our midst" to try and scare everyone. I do find it interesting the interest in the association all of a sudden, the BGCT has been trying to phase out them out for years now. No one is really surprised and no one is frankly all that interested outside of the property involved. SBC leadership has been bullying the lower downs for years, NOW we take notice!?! Please. If you are going to dance with a bull don't act surprised when you get gored.

[Dave Roberts]

Patterson seems to think he is Moses leading the seminary into the promised land. Wiil Baptists ever recognize how he operates? Guess not....

[William Thornton]

"[Associational Moderator Elect] Meredith, reached by phone, confirmed the letter but said he believes the seminary is reconsidering its claim on the building."



"The seminary asserted it had asked for—and had not received—assistance from the association office in helping students and faculty gain access to empty pulpits in the association."

Wm: The primary reason that is being discussed for the request to vacate is the toleration of homosexuality. The secondary reason is the one quoted above. While the associational people deny that there is a problem with assistance and placement, any Baptist pastor knows that the associational missionary often has enough influence to blackball or steer churches away from whomever he wishes, and do so unilaterally and arbitrarily. Although I cannot imagine that SWBTS and Patterson lack direct inroads into most or all of the churches in that association, if the AM is working against them then that should be addressed.

[Gene Scarborough]

I have been playing "catch up" on this one, but now have enough information to address this worsening situation in Texas.

My frame of reference is having watched Patterson, et al, work their magic at SEBTS. It all fits the same pattern of total rule. The SEBTS campus had a fine Cafeteria and the Ruby Reed Child Care Center. Both were early casualties of the Patterson RULE. The pretense for closing the child care center was that seminary wives should stay home and care for their children. They could care less that the Ruby Reed center served the entire community and brought great honor to SEBTS because of its safe and loving environment. It also served as an observation site for students wishing to enter Children's Ministry--mostly female students. The women were instantly told none could enter the Pastoral courses at SEBTS.

The Cafeteria served great meals at reasonable prices and was used by several Wake Forest civic clubs. In my time there were no other places to eat in "little/old" Wake Forest. Under Lolley it was used for campus-wide celebrations and his famous Town Meetings monthly where students were updated on Seminary events and invited to voice their views on any subject. Mostly, they were seeking guidance from students as to what they valued and wanted in the future of SEBTS. In it's place came a grand addition to the President's home of a large dining facility run to entertain guests and students to woo them further into Patterson Worship. It was "Patterson-centric."

[Gene Scarborough]

As with most things "Patterson the new Pharisee" there is humor to be found amidst pomp and circumstance. It's like Jesus speaking of the Pharisees going around looking for specks of sawdust in others' eyes while ignoring the beam sticking out of their own eye--funny mental picture.

The President's home on the corner of the SEBTS campus had been renovated at CP expense for Mrs. Drummond. Thousands upon thousands were spent and no one could get the figures. The closest I came was the Contractor who said it wouldn't be good if his local Baptist church found out how she had things done / wanted them changed / and did it 3-4 times in some cases. Each redo cost the innitial building fee / almost the same to tear out wood which could not be reused / more for new material and time to try and please her.

Well, Mrs. Patterson felt the renovated home needed a proper name. She decided on "Magnolia Hill" (same with "Pecan Manor") as a properly prestegious name. A sign was quickly erected on the front lawn. What "Miss Dorothy" did not know was that the last active "house of ill repute" in Wake County during the 30's was-------"MAGNOLIA HILL!"

The humor was certainly NOT MISSED by the old timers who had lived there in Wake County and knew the story!!!!

[Dave Roberts]

I was at SBTS during the late 60's and early 70's. The association played almost no role in seminary students or faculty having opportunities to serve or preach in churches. The seminary maintained its own placement office. I never knew associations had much to do with getting students or faculty into churches. I was in NC for 21 years, and associations around SEBTS seldom had much to do with the placement of students. I had two SEBTS students on church staffs, and we never heard from associations on either of them. I think that one is pure smoke screen that Tarrant did not help students and faculty. That's not their place. Baptists are not a connectional denomination. Patterson evidently wants one--so much for Baptist heritage.

[wterrya]

William, as a former employee of the Tarrant Association, I can assure you that the Executive Director of TBA (or Associational Missionary in your terminology) did nothing to prevent SWBTS students from serving in Tarrant County churches. TBA is unlike what most of you have experienced in Baptist associations, since it is larger than most state conventions. The association does not act as a placement office for students, but I am not sure there is any reason for complaint about the number of SWBTS students serving in Tarrant Association churches. If the association is impeding this process, it is doing a poor job. It is hard to find a church of any size in the Association that does not have a seminary student or two earning money.

[Gene Scarborough]

Try out this paraphrase of Matthew 23:

The Pattersonites and Presslerites control the SBC so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They make many rules and narrow theologies, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not live personal lives under them.

They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their designer ties bright and their expensive tailored suits sharp, and they love the place of honor at all Pastor’s Conferences. They love being recognized and called “Dr.” by their subservient masses. But you are all the same as Baptists: you have one master, Jesus, and one Father who is God in heaven. Neither be called President or Vice-President, for you have one master, the Christ... But woe to you, dictators to Baptists, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who follow you to go in.

You go on glorious and expensive overseas mission trips to make a single proselyte and then corrupt him. You make all kinds of Resolutions and use Robert’s Rules of Order in any way to get your way. You don’t care what promises you make or public statements as long as you sound politically correct. Your sermons are slick and designed to please men. You neglect the Gospels and the ideas of God’s love and forgiveness, replacing them with legalisms and judgmentalism to make sinful men feel worse.

You blind guides, straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel! Woe to you dictator pastors! You are like dishes and cups cleaned only on the outside while the inside is full of rotting food and disease. First cleanse the inside and the outside will clean itself. You take statements out of context from Baptist forefathers and act as if they applaud your mindless theology. You say you would love what the forefathers died for, but you take away the freedoms for which they would give their life. They went to jail and endured punishment so we could live in a land of freedom of religion and conscience. You would have been in the mobs which booed them and threw them in prison. You would have shot them rather than listen to their cries for freedom of individual churches and believers.

Many Baptists are saying we have deserted our heritage of freedom in recent years, but you call them “skunks” and “liberals” to anyone who doesn’t know what being free and Baptist means. The hottest fires of Hell wait for those who do not live in love and allow their brothers in the faith to be free. Anyone who claims to serve a God of love, but cannot love his brother who is different or uses different words, is a liar and a hypocrite destined for God’s harshest judgment.

[Dave Roberts]

Spur material!

[William Thornton]

[johnfariss]

My experience at SEBTS in the early-mid '80s was very much like Dave's at SBTS. When I was seeking a church to serve, I went and spoke to the DOM in the Raleigh Association. He said he would be glad to take my resume, but that because of the promixity of SEBTS, most churches went directly to their placement office, and he very seldom--and almost never in the case of smaller churches--had anyone contact him about names for prospective pastors. As much larger as SWBTS is from SEBTS, I find it difficult to believe their situation is different.

John Fariss

[Chris]

[HowellS]

[wesleyshotwell]

The 99 year lease agreement happened in 1982. In 1997 the agreement was revised in which SWBTS gave the deed to both land and building to the association. There is in the agreement for 30 years retroactive to 1982 a reverter clause with the stipulation that TBA and the seminary derive mutual benefit from the relationship and that there be common purpose. The 30 years is almost up. I do not know the exact wording of the agreement. I have not actually seen it. However, I do know that if disagreement arises there must be a three member arbitration board that will decide the matter. If the board decides TBA has broken the agreement the seminary can take the property. At least that is my understanding.

SWBTS is claiming we have broken the agreement by not helping them find places of service for students and professors. That is ridiculous. There are students and professors serving in churches all over the county as interns, staff members, etc... Al Merideth's church has 6. The other matter is they claim we have member church (es) who are not in friendly cooperation with the SBC, thus not living up to a common purpose. It is obvious they are talking about Broadway. Broadway is constantly accused of affirming homosexual behavior. They have never affirmed homosexuality. They did have a discussion concerning the matter that split their church apart, but they never affirmed. They have not ordained a homosexual. They do welcome all sinners and seek to minister to them. That seems rather Christlike to me.

My church has contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to TBA over the years as have many TBA churches. If the seminary succeeds this will be an injustice to the 400 churches of TBA. It will confirm in the minds of sinners that Baptist really do hate them. It will damage Kingdom work.

Please pray for us in this matter. We are trying to deal with this matter with a Christian spirit, yet refusing to allow this injustice to go unchallenged. If the seminary succeeds it could severely damage the association. We might not survive it financially. Pray for the sake of Kingdom work that God would change Dr. Patterson's heart and mind to see the damage this will do to the Kingdom.

[HowellS]

After further reading and review, it appears that what Southwestern is trying to do to Tarrant Baptist Association and their property is even worse than at first blush. SWBTS is trying to invoke a reversionary clause to regain ownership of the property. Two of the reasons given (placement of students and needing more space) are ludicrous reasons to invoke the nuclear option of reversion. The other reason -- homosexuality -- is a red herring. Unless there is more than meets the eye, what Southwestern is doing is nothing more than a frontal assault on the autonomy of a local association, in direct violation of the SBC Constitution. I have written a new post entitled, "Southwestern Seminary's Assault on Autonomy" that will be available at 7:00 a.m. (EST) on Thursday. Thanks and God bless,