Frank Page's SBC: Eisenhower or Demint Republicans

[Stephen Fox]

http://americanprinciplesproject.org/

Given Page's hardwiring to Demint's ideology and geography, I think it a fair question to ask.

[Stephen Fox]

Thornton's mid October blog on SBC Challenge and the SBC Today interview with Frank Page

Here is comment I left there to challenge Page:

I think Page needs to address the Tea Party and the national discussion on W.A. Criswell's successor Jeffress.
Jeffress is getting lot of ink or bytes at religiondispatches.org
And Page is hardwired to the Tea Party by virtue of his association with the politics of Jim Demint, bout five miles from his long pastorate in Taylors, S.C.

S.C. primary continues to choose the GOP candidate.
Page has his hands full with lot of issues.
Another one would be Robert Parham's scorching essay on the Alabama Baptist Convention and Immigration.
USA Today, NY Times: All have done stories on Bama and Immigration.
Where other than standby on SBC Resolution is Page on all that and is it his responsibility to make public statements to Bama Baptist Deacon Gov Bentley, and Albert Lee Smith's widow Eunie--google local news of al.com for last Sunday's scathing essay on Eunie's immigration guru Kris Kobach

[Stephen Fox]

Comments at abpnews story raise the level of discourse on the matter;

Mine is about 34

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/6862/53/

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/16/142353732 ... inequality

How do you respond to this negotiation of the evolution of GOP Tax Policy?

[Stephen Fox]

Will Frank Page and Al Mohler and Richard Land read Stephens and Giberson's The Anointed and explain their role in bringing us to this:

Newt Gingrich waded into a stifling crowd at Tommy’s Ham House in Greenville this morning with promises to shore up Social Security and recenter the country on property rights and the Constitution instead of elite, European liberalism — hot themes for southern conservatives in attendance who responded repeatedly with raucous applause.

From the moment he took the microphone, Gingrich spoke to southern staples including religious liberty and American exceptionalism that he said comes from subordination to a supreme being.
And he missed few opportunities to rip President Obama as inept and a “Saul Alinsky radical.”
But Gingrich can’t win, he said, without South Carolina.
If Obama doesn’t agree to seven Lincoln-Douglas style debates of three hours each, Gingrich said he would follow him around the country, showing up four hours after his speeches to rebut them until he agrees to debate. He joked that he would let him use a teleprompter.
On the Obama administration’s decision to delay a decision on the Keystone oil pipeline from Canada, Gingrich said it was a mistake that has led to Canadians to discuss sending the oil to China instead.
“These guys not only can’t play chess, they can’t play tic-tac-toe,” Gingrich said.
He said the State Department has a “deep bias” against Israel, noting that it’s the only country where the U.S. embassy isn’t in the capital city, and he said that when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad wished for its destruction liberal elites were looking for an underlying symbolism.
As a historian, Gingrich said, he understands what Ahmadinejad means.
The Justice Department’s lawsuit against South Carolina, and the administration’s willingness to allow other countries to file amicus briefs in the case, mark an “outrageous anti-Constitutional position,” he said.
He ripped the Texas judge who banned prayer at graduation as an “anti-religious bigot” whose office he would close. This received one of the morning’s most sustained periods of applause, and a partial standing ovation.
Asked to predict when the economy would recover, he said it would begin on election night when it becomes clear Obama is headed back to Chicago.
Gingrich said he intends to run a team campaign, picking up state legislative majorities, a majority in the Senate and 20 to 30 more seats in the House. He said he would ask the new Congress to stay in Washington when they’re sworn in in January to repeal “Obamacare,” the Dodd-Frank reforms and the Sarbanes-Oxley Act so he could sign the measures immediately upon his swearing in January 21st.
“We only get to the debates if I’m the nominee,” Gingrich told a packed house at about 9 a.m. And to be the nominee, he said, he has to win South Carolina.
GreenvilleOnline.com is developing this story.

[Stephen Fox]

Google his Jan 4 blog and compare it to Brian kaylor's assessment here.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/despite-affa ... -cms-19052

[Gene Scarborough]

The fat is hitting the fan as the primaries come to SC.

It ought to be interesting.

[Stephen Fox]

I just submitted a letter for Publication. I think it has a good shot.
Meanwhile Rd.org is weighing in on Santorum.

My major concern in addition to his arcane convictions on Planned Parenthood is his eggregious statement on JFK and the Houston Church State address of 1960

Sarah Posner takes it from there

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... ion_angle/

[Sandy]

Santorum appears to be the latest edition of the we-don't-want-Mit club. The focus of the GOP right now is not on any issue related to the election, but on which candidate has the greatest potential to beat Obama. That doesn't sit well with the agenda-oriented religious right. They may actually have a point, since there seems to be a real hard core group of conservative Evangelicals who aren't going to vote for a Mormon, no matter what, and that may make the claims that Romney appears to be the "only" Republican who can beat Obama a bit weak, since he can't really afford for a segment of the GOP to either stay home or vote third party, or, as I suspect some of them will do, vote for Obama to make a point.

Santorum lost a senate seat, badly, to Bob Casey here in Pennsylvania, and there doesn't appear to be much voter support for him here now. It's hard to get a political read on this area, though Pittsburgh and most of its metro area are heavily and solidly Democrat. The congressional seats are mixed, the Representative from our district, who the pundits said was the "most vulnerable" Democrat in this part of the state, won a close election last time around against a Tea Party Republican for whom Sarah Palin made a dozen personal appearances. I guess that helped the Democrat win.

I enjoyed Brian Kaylor's piece on the support of Land and other leading religious right wingers for Gingrich, and their willingness to forgive him even though he hasn't really admitted that he needs forgiveness and hasn't asked, but they wanted Bill Clinton to resign. I think the GOP is going to make the same mistake this time around that the Democrats did in 2004 when they nominated Kerry. They didn't have an election platform, all they wanted to do was run someone who could beat Bush. As long as the Republican campaign is focused on getting Obama out, they won't have an issue that will put them over, and they won't have a candidate who can win.

[Gene Scarborough]

When all you can do is be "against something," that is the reason we are not coming out of the Recession with statesmanship leading the way.

Show me a Republican statesman, and I might just vote for that person!

[Stephen Fox]

See Baptists Today reading list for Jan 9. www.baptiststoday.org News feed daily

[Stephen Fox]

The Backyard of Taylors FBC, which draws from the Byrnes Community, Byrnes Home of Carolina Gamecocks Lattimore

http://www.goupstate.com/article/201201 ... ?p=1&tc=pg

[Stephen Fox]

On the Gambling issue. Will be hard for Land to convince Brian Kaylor Jesus is behind Gingrich now, not in SBC land

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/us/po ... ef=general

[Stephen Fox]

How will Land navigate the Iran and Muslim Question with Santorum. Looks like Land is running out of candidates.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... bomb_iran/

[Stephen Fox]

At Byrnes HS

Jan. 12. PERRY CAMPAIGN -- GOP presidential candidate Rick Perry campaigns, 9 a.m., Lizard's Thicket, 711-1 University Village Drive, Blythewood; noon, Duke's Barbecue, 789 Chestnut St., Orangeburg; 2 p.m., Murphy Law Firm, 136 West Richardson Ave., Summerville; 4 p.m., Hiott's Pharmacy, 213 East Washington St., Walterboro; 5 p.m., Fat Jack's Grillin' and Chillin' Restaurant, 308 Ivanhoe Drive, Walterboro.
Jan. 12. 12 p.m. GINGRICH FUNDRAISER -- Greenville County Republican Party officials hold a fundraiser with presidential candidate Newt Gingrich. Location: Embassy Suites Greenville, 670 Verdae Blvd., Greenville
Jan. 13. 6:30 p.m. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FORUM -- Greenville and Spartanburg County Republican parties hold a presidential candidate forum and barbeque. Location: Byrnes High School, 150 East Main St., Duncan

Wouldn't be surprised if Land shows up to make an endorsement, but could be interesting since Billy Graham's pastor Don Wilton in Spartanburg endorsed Romney in 2008

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/sbc-official ... -cms-19088

[Gene Scarborough]

Man---don't we both recognize the territory!!!

If there was a meeting at "The Clock" in Greenville, we would have mouths watering!!!!

[Sandy]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/13/opinion/w ... google_cnn

[Stephen Fox]

The story in Sandy's link above is the embedded link to" Demint's staff". There it mentions former SC GOP chair Barry Wynn set to endorse Romney, fleeing the Perry Camp.
Makes things more difficult for Richard Land and his Texas Ranch meeting this weekend.
Barry's brother, Baxter is long time staffer at FBC Greenville, where appreciation of church state views of George Truett should make LAnd's abortion boys, Santorum and Gingrich anathema. Both have voiced outlandish church state views. And I don't see how Baxter could stomach Rick Perry; I was hoping some national pundit would ask him by now.
About two years ago, the WSJ, I think it was quoted Barry in reference to Demint's fallout with a "compromising" Bob Inglis.
And nearby in Spartanburg, four years ago, Billy Graham's pastor, Don Wilton endorsed Romney.

Good Baptist story here somehow ed.com and abpnews.com is missing.

Baxter is a grand fellow; yet to paraphrase Newman's great line in the Road to Perdition "It's all so hysterical". Make that Connor, later James Bond, Daniel Craig

[Gene Scarborough]

I saw and heard Demint over the weekend = NOT IMPRESSED.

He is a character after my sojourn in SC so I was unfamiliar with him. Seems he is a full-blown Teabagger and that it never a good thing.

When I first heard of the Tea Party it sounded like a renewal of "no taxation without representation." I attended their meeting in Greenville, NC, and found a bunch of pissed off white folks yelling about Obama and the Democrats.

Democrats have a serious problem with welfare excesses since the 1970's. The President is the right color to resolve and contain it so that people work for their money just like me. He is getting us out of Iraq. We must pay more attention to this country rather than mess with the rest of the world and provide military protection.

I'm already tired of

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Gene when you write 'Democrats have a serious problem with welfare excesses since the 1970's. The President is the right color to resolve and contain it so that people work for their money just like me. He is getting us out of Iraq. We must pay more attention to this country rather than mess with the rest of the world and provide military protection."

What does Obama's color have to do with resolving and containing what you call "welfare excess' ? And as for his getting us out of Iraq that doesn't seem to be any great accomplishment given the prevailing sentiment of the populace.

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

You know EXACTLY what I mean by "the right color." At present, welfare is considered an "entitlement." That means if anyone but a black president were to make changes, a riot would ensue---and you and everyone else knows it!

This is in no way racist on my part. It is simple fact that most black churches here meet for the worship /break for lunch /resume the activities with a seminar on maximizing welfare payments.

It's one thing to pick up a check when it is needed as a temporary aid. It's quite another to have been getting one since and 70's and now 5 generations have sucked the welfare tit without becoming more responsible citizens---and I, for one, have had enough!

You will want to debate me and deny, but you have not tried to get them to come off the porch and do tree work either = it seldom happens. Now it is far more profitable in Rocky Mount to deal drugs and rob than work either. Sorry, but "that's the way it is," as Walter Cronkite famously said each evening.

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed---

1. You know EXACTLY what I mean by "the right color." At present, welfare is considered an "entitlement." That means if anyone but a black president were to make changes, a riot would ensue---and you and everyone else knows it!

Ed: 1. I had an idea that is what you where saying, but I wanted you to spell it out. Thanks! I happen to think that is a crock of stuff.
You have nothing to support your biased opinion. And Gene How do you understand the meaning of entitlement as applied to state welfare programs. Basically they are Government program that requires payment to anyone who meets specific qualifications; those who qualify are thus “entitled” to the payments.

G.S. 2.This is in no way racist on my part. It is simple fact that most black churches here meet for the worship /break for lunch /resume the activities with a seminar on maximizing welfare payments.

Ed 2, If you want me to believe that you will have to show me some verifiable evidence. in the first place I don't think you know squat about "most black churches" in North Carolina or anywhere else.

G.S. 3. It's one thing to pick up a check when it is needed as a temporary aid. It's quite another to have been getting one since and 70's and now 5 generations have sucked the welfare tit without becoming more responsible citizens---and I, for one, have had enough!.

Ed3. More unsupportable hyperbole ! North Carolina has the 20th highest per capita income but also has the 15th greatest number of households with incomes under the poverty level.

G.S. 4.You will want to debate me and deny, but you have not tried to get them to come off the porch and do tree work either = it seldom happens. Now it is far more profitable in Rocky Mount to deal drugs and rob than work either. Sorry, but "that's the way it is," as Walter Cronkite famously said each evening.

4. Cronkite generally offed verifiable evidence before offering his tag line. But you may want to see what he said about it after he retired http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOa4sg2WOEQ I am not debating you I am simply asking you to support your hype. And when you tell me that I have not "tried to get them to come off the porch and do tree work either." You have a good bet. I have never done tree work except to prune and or cut a few trees on my own property. And I have no idea as to your reputation as an employer in you community. But I have worked with what the U.S. Labor Department termed the Hard Core unemployed either directly or supervising those who Counseled, trained and did job development and certified trainees for twenty years. I worked as a welfare case worker for a few year before that. Through our professional organization I knew a number of people in North Carolina who worked for you state Employment Service. Even spent a week at a plush golf resort near Asheville with them while attending a meeting of our international board. I think it was what is now the Crown Plaza Tennis and Golf resort. that is not what it was then. I only remember that it was Asheville because some of the group went to visit the Biltmore Estate when we had an afternoon off.

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

I give you facts and experiences I know and you continue the denial. In a way your are saying I am lying! Don't try to judge and describe everything only on your local experience!

Look, Ed, I was on the first Title XX funds in SC back in the 70's. That committee funded many things still going today: a housekeeper to go around even if the person was so sorry their kids nor friends would help them / transportation on call to take them wherever they wanted / other things I thought were somewhat fluffy for one without money.

Help---YES / perks and pleasures---NO. Now we have Title XX folks requesting hip and joint replacement due to the fact they are weighing in at 300 up on WIC coupons. I am buying my chicken and hamburger while they are checking out with large carts of fine meats and plenty.

Now, some 40 years later fleets of transport vans fill up the parking lot for Nash/Edgecombe (NEED) = Nash Edgecombe Economic Developement. Any time something has an acrostic name it has to do with Title XX funds which were meant as temporary help. An entire beureaucracy is now created to suport it and it grows each year rather than diminish.

The "War on Poverty" has to have an end point or maintenance point. This is part of the economic crisis as roads and infrastructure deteriorate further.

What do you suggest to bring it under some measure of control and to return it to the primary purpose of "temporary help?"

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Gene, asked me "What do you suggest to bring it under some measure of control and to return it to the primary purpose of "temporary help?"

I am not there Gene, but what sort of consulting fee could you offer? But to make reasonable suggestions I would need solid information not casual observations at a checkout counter. BTW, did you watch the Cronkite clip about his tag line?

[Gene Scarborough]

Ed---

You should have been a dodgeball champion as you always duck and run on serious matters you COULD address, if you chose.