Frank Page's SBC: Eisenhower or Demint Republicans

[Stephen Fox]

[Stephen Fox]

http://fromlaw2grace.com/2010/11/11/vir ... s-liberty/

Howell Scott's civl piece on BGAV church state statement at his blog has drawn the attention of Bircher Cleon Skousen's son Paul in the comment exchanges. With the recent New Yorker piece on Father Skousen, this could be interesting development indeed, as Frank Page should be called on to nuance and navigate the recent Sarah Posner piece about his Taylors FBC parishioner Kimbrell.

Hope to see some comments by Gourley and BigDid Weaver on this one as it could be seminal; of some substance for sure.
Do read the New Yorker piece in the comment line of the blog link above

[Stephen Fox]

http://ceopac.org/

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archive ... evelation/

Richard Land by association.

Your Cooperative Program Dollars bankrolling an apologist for Father Coughlin; not much of a reach to say that is how far the SBC has fallen.

How can Pastors continue to say it just doesn't matter that our church blindly fills the coffers of the Cooperative Program and Richard Land.

Where has discernment gone at local church level.

[Stephen Fox]

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5941/53/


There were 19 responses to this Brent Walker piece recently at ABP. I think several show what Truett like church state thought as it would have evolved to this point are up against in the fundamentalist fog machine.
Look at some of these comments. I would hope Frank Page and some of the leadership of the SBC are more clear headed than this, but maybe not.

I do hope the detractors there would have the integrity to read Lepore and Robinson, as I hope many of you will as well.
There should be a way to bring Lepore's book in particular and its thoughts on constitutional fundamentalism to the attention of Frank Page and the Tea Party apologists at his former FBC Taylors, SC.

[Stephen Fox]

Who will call on Frank Page to define himself in regard the links above and the Prevailing Ideology Now in South Carolina "laboratory".

http://www.tnr.com/article/the-permanen ... ikki-haley

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/some-baptist ... -cms-17222

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... atriarchy/

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article ... -education

Nuances the topography interestingly.

On the face of it I think she speaks with conviction and has an honest appraisal. Would be interesting to see if folks like her can navigate the Page/Demint/SBC thicket with authenticity and integrity.

[Stephen Fox]

My Grandfather Jordan was a Lincoln Republican like Judge Frank Johnson. My Grandfather Fox was a pre Watergate Eisenhower/Nixon Republican and Nixon sent his brother to Iran and China as a trade Rep for Reynolds Aluminum.

The Chapel at Furman is named for one of Nixon's best friends in South Carolina, Charles E. Daniel.

I think it fair to probe Frank Page and Richard Land on this article. I hope to see their inflections soon.
I have already brought it to the attention of Harry Dent's daughter, Ginny Brant; IMB trustee and great friend of Demint, who with Mike Huckabee and David Rogers endorse her book.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... eir_peril/

[Stephen Fox]

[Stephen Fox]

First Parham takes Barbour's Race History to task:

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/civil-war-fr ... -cms-17700

And this fine effort by Suzi Parker

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02/27 ... wo-souths/

Somebody should see where Charles Pickering lines up in all this; and explore Barbour on the questions raised above about the difference between Demint and Eisenhower, all inflected and nuanced by SBC Peace Committee's Pickering.

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... erattacks/

[Stephen Fox]

In the Splintering SBC. Will Frank Page and the SBC Excom address this ideology:

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... _universe/

[Stephen Fox]

Can the SBC rise above this mess, or is the leadership so fogged as to be unable to stand against it.

What is the difference between Charles Pickering's Headset and this mess?

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... urriculum/

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.tnr.com/article/books/magazi ... tian-right

Will he recommend it to the Jim Demint board on which he sits in South Carolina and to the ExCom of the SBC.

Mark Noll comes highly recommended.

[Gene Scarborough]

WOW--Stephen---you are wearing this one out with commentary--albeit--good questions and comments. Let me get a word in edgewise.

I was born in PIckens County, SC. My grandfather owned a 280 acre farm near Taylors at the Berea community where his family attended Berea Baptist church. I have a fair degree of familiarity with upstate SC and was the Associate Pastor of Easley FBC--not that far from Taylors. Taylors is the first "fellowship of excitement" pastored by Ed Young, Sr. Frank Page now profits from being located in a fast grow / yuppie area of the Greenville Metro area.

For some strange reason SC has gone both Conservative Resurgence Baptist as well as Republican. My SC Democrat farmer grandfather would roll over in his grave. Due to his salvation from the Depression with FDR, he would always just check the box above ALL Democratic candidates. Thank God he died before Strom Thurmond became Republican and it was later learned he sired a child with one of his black household servants!

Now, what has happened down South is that---as the economy became robust and dramatic growth took place--with it came a change to Republican in most prosperous Southern States. It proves my father's addage: "The only real difference between a Republican and a Democrat is that a Republican is just a former Democrat who made lots on money--and now wants to keep it all and pay no taxes!"

The Tea Party is just a disgruntled bunch of Republicans who hate paying any taxes and hate the Obama Administration. Their main motivation is hate in my personal observations here in eastern NC. Rush Limbau and other talking heads on FOX get their following from people foolish enough to think paying no taxes benefits our need for a completely renovated infrastructure and the "value" of an "education lottery."

The religious appeal to conservative values via Jerry Fallwell's Moral Majority is but part of the Tea Party origination.

My question is always to "Conservatives": Conserve what????

Conservatives have destroyed the basis of the SBC rather than "conserve it." Republicans are doing their best to destroy the Middle Class in favor of the Wealthy Class. Now they are making Estate Taxes their money focus! Estate Taxation was put in by Congress to defeat the super wealthy "Robber Barons" of railroad / utilities / large corporation origin. It's purpose was to insure America is a middle class paradise without the super wealthy and politically controlling Kings / Queens / Titled wealth of the few in England and Europe. It was becoming such in the late 1800-early 1900 American social strata. It put in heavy taxation of any large Estate as the children paid for the right to inherit large sums from their parents. After $3M now the tax starts at .53 on the dollar and goes upward quickly. It is designed purposely to bankrupt any large estate.

You would think a wise founder of a large estate would recognize this in advance of death and make preparation to pay the tax through a large insurance policy costing them as little as .1 on the dollar if instituted early. At the most it can be done with about $10 on a hundred with a good policy. I worked in this field and found too many wealthy farmers / businessmen thinking they could beat the system and not buy a proper policy. That selfishness and coniving has one potential client of mine sitting on a powder keg when he dies with his $7M estate. Nationwide offered him the proper amount of insurance at the end of the year. He was almost uninsurable with serious health issues, but Nationwide wanted the business so badly they offered the policy at standard rates. I couldn't believe he turned it down. Now he is totally uninsurable as his diabetes and other declining health has him on the edge of his grave. So stupid!!! So costly to me who spent almost a year putting together an appropriate program for him and consulting with his banker / lawyer / tax attorney. It is a complex and time-consuming process.

Anyway, Frank Page is making a 6-digit income leading Taylors FBC--just like every single one of the SBC mega church pastors and most of the Agency heads. Their wealth pushes them toward a political party and its adjunct wanting to pay little or no taxes through creative accounting and the services of good estate advisors. There is no real problem in my view with paying taxes in a country which allowed for such financial success. You can give it away--as many rich folks do--to tax-exempt non-profit institutions. Hence, the Baptist Foundation / CBF Foundation / Universities help the rich remove their tax burden with the promise of a name on a building and wonderful "humanitarian" articles in the media.

Stephen---it's all about the money, honey!!! Pad the church pockets / Republican pockets / Tea Party pockets and get out of paying your wealth to the government. Meanwhile us working folks have our mandated deductions for FICA / Social Security / etc. taken out to the tune of 20-30% of our wages. What a blessing as we hear of Oil Companies and large Corporations paying $0 in taxes over the last several "most profitable" years. It gets even better with criticism of "Obamacare" which no one can really tell you why it is so bad---just give it a derisive title tantamount to "liberal!!!"

[Stephen Fox]

Gene: That was interesting but your time and mine as well, not to mention the 40 or so other folks who might read this would be better served if you would read Joe Crespino's In Search of Another country as well as make a way to find Mark Noll's review in Print issue of New Republic.
Maybe have some of our mutual acquaintances take a copy by the Billy Graham Library in Charlotte

Had a good chat with some folks from Clemson today. They know about my niece's restaurant there in Orange Town.

[Gene Scarborough]

When you have a lifetime of experiences as I cited above---why deal in the ivory tower of writers you mention???

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/myth-busted- ... -cms-17984

Thought about new topic for this one but thought it would be great resource in this thread. Heard Glenn Beck yesterday and De La Torre is great counterpoint.

Hope Frank Page is taking a look.

[Jim]

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispa ... %2C_again/

Political gospel of Ralph Reed as he distinguishes himself from Family Research Council.

How do the local churches that make up SBC define themselves related to this Gospel. And if their autonomy differs from Frank Page, who funds whom?

[Stephen Fox]

Howell Scott recent blog with a comment by our own William Thornton who has given a caveatted endorsement of Mitt Romney

http://fromlaw2grace.com/2011/06/03/new ... edfellows/

[Jim]

Gingrich is smarter than most of the candidates and he’s done some significant things, but he’s far too flawed to be acceptable as president, notwithstanding that the voters put Bill Clinton in office twice, a virtual paradigmatic approval of not only adultery but perversion, as well. Either of his opponents was far superior from a moral standpoint, as far as is known publicly, and there’s been plenty of time for the media cutthroats to have massacred Bush 41 and Dole since then. Also, both had extensive or painful military combat experience, as did Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon and Ford. Carter and Bush 43 had considerable non-combat experience as well. None of that mattered, despite Clinton’s admitted “loathing” of the military. Gingrich also has had no military experience but then that’s the case with most of the candidates, including Obama, awkward in any military setting. More’s the pity when national security is the first priority for any president. Gingrich has shown a lack of common sense by his constant references to the public getting a “twofer” if he’s elected. The public is not interested in a man and wife team running the country. The Clintons proved that. The election of Clinton seemed at the time to indicate that morals mean nothing, but adultery seems now to be synonymous with dishonesty, a killer charge against any officeholder, no matter whether or not deserving of it. He who cheats on his wife is not to be trusted in anything.

As for Land, I was against the SBC CLC from the start. When the office was moved to D.C., it became political and denominations should stay out of politics, a purely personal matter. Baptists come in all shapes and sizes and should never be painted with a broad brush, which happens every time Land says anything.