SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

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SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:19 pm

http://sbcplodder.blogspot.com/2010/07/ ... sions.html

AAron BDidd Weaver makes a good comment there.

If Dawson Memorial in Bham or the WMU ever publicly updates and navigates Thornton's point; somebody please give us a report.

Or isn't it time Wade Burleson and some of the churches he influences, find entities in the CBF network they can send some of their CP money too, if they are weary of supporting the whole shooting match.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:33 am

Thanks, Stephen.

Carolyn Crumpler, former WMB head and a name from the SBC Controversy past, walks in a CBF church and sees that they still promote and receive a Lottie Moon offering...and is, uh, not excited about that.

I merely commented: "If one’s primary love is missions then wouldn’t one expect that even SBC missions, Lottie Moon missions would be praised, commended, and supported? We aren't dealing with a zero sum pool of missions support, are we?"

As the ABP story goes: "...CBF churches continue to fund Southern Baptist Convention missionaries by allowing members to designate gifts to the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering, a former executive director of Woman's Missionary Union said June 25."

Which reminds me of the many discussions Mark and I had here over SBC churches not allowing members to designate to the CBF (My suggestion: "Here, this is the CBF's address. Mail your check directly to them.").

Were CBF leaning churches (and almost all of them merely lean and haven't fallen completely in) to prohibit Lottie Moon and other SBC stuff, wonder what the members would do?

Apparently, not many churches have the guts to try.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Sandy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:18 am

If it bothers CBF leaders that something like 90% of their partnering congregations remain affiliated with and supportive of the SBC's Cooperative Program, there's a way to deal with that. If they don't like that, and they feel that their partner churches are cheating them by also contributing to the SBC, they need to tell them to quit doing it. Twenty years of promotion, talking about "a new way to be Baptist," exclusive "invitation only" dialogue meetings and continuous, caustic criticism of "those SBC Fundamentalists" hasn't turned the trick. The number of partnering churches has dropped off by several hundred, and giving to the general fund has fallen a lot faster and further than CP giving in the SBC. Seems to me it is time for CBF to tell its partnering churches to get with the program, if it wants a future.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:28 am

Well put, Timothy and Sandy, and almost exactly what I wrote years ago here.

The next five years should be interesting. Vestal is about five years overdue from turning that outfit over to someone younger, with different ideas, and more enthusiasm. I get the sense that the old lions are dying (Sherman), or are doing a circuit to pick up their awards (Crumpler) while the status quo continues not to work for the CBF.

The SBC is big enough, established enough to lumber along with pedestrian leadership and nothing much is harmed in the short haul. Not so the CBF...seems to me...but they do have some nice meetings.

You know, if Sandy exits the SBC, then this forum might be renamed: SBC News and Trends as seen by ex-SBCers. :)
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:44 am

William Thornton wrote:Thanks, Stephen.

Carolyn Crumpler, former WMB head and a name from the SBC Controversy past, walks in a CBF church and sees that they still promote and receive a Lottie Moon offering...and is, uh, not excited about that.

I merely commented: "If one’s primary love is missions then wouldn’t one expect that even SBC missions, Lottie Moon missions would be praised, commended, and supported? We aren't dealing with a zero sum pool of missions support, are we?"

As the ABP story goes: "...CBF churches continue to fund Southern Baptist Convention missionaries by allowing members to designate gifts to the Lottie Moon Christmas Offering, a former executive director of Woman's Missionary Union said June 25."

Which reminds me of the many discussions Mark and I had here over SBC churches not allowing members to designate to the CBF (My suggestion: "Here, this is the CBF's address. Mail your check directly to them.").

Were CBF leaning churches (and almost all of them merely lean and haven't fallen completely in) to prohibit Lottie Moon and other SBC stuff, wonder what the members would do?

Apparently, not many churches have the guts to try.


ED: William I think perhaps you are missing the point that Carolyn was making in in her talk at Charlotte, and in the ABP story about it.

Note that what Carolyn said about one church where she had been invited to speak; "They said, 'Now Carolyn, remember we are not Southern Baptists. We are Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. We want you to talk about CBF missions,'" she recalled. "I walked into church on Sunday morning and there was this big sign: 'Lottie Moon Christmas Offering.'" italics here are mine

She was not talking about SBC churches that allow folk to designate their gifts. The folk who had invited her had said "Now Carolyn, remember we are not Southern Baptists. We are Cooperative Baptist Fellowship." And yet the church was Promoting the Lottie Moon offering thus supporting SBC's mission board which had fired missionaries who would not sign the BF&M statement. And CBF had picked up many of these. You may may not see the irony in that but it was not lost Carolyn's audience in room 208 A of the Convention center. An audience that in large part where CBF missionaries and former missionaries some of whom had at one time worked under appointment of the SBC missions program.

And when you ask "If one’s primary love is missions then wouldn’t one expect that even SBC missions, Lottie Moon missions would be praised, commended, and supported? My answer is NO ! Because the SBC mission program in my view places women in a subservient class that can not be supported bucolically and demands support of the false doctrine of biblical inerrancy .

And Sandy, When you say "If it bothers CBF leaders that something like 90% of their partnering congregations remain affiliated with and supportive of the SBC's Cooperative Program, there's a way to deal with that. If they don't like that, and they feel that their partner churches are cheating them by also contributing to the SBC, they need to tell them to quit doing it. "

I think it is probably best that you are looking at a denomination other than Baptist . With local Baptist churches being autonomous no larger group can legitimately tell them to quit doing some thing . And quite honestly I have never heard a CBF leader say it bothers them them that a large percentage (90% may be an exageration) of our partnering churches remain affiliated with and supportive of the SBC cooperative program. Now I have heard some wonder why -out loud even. :)
And I have head them explain why they prefer the CBF and have given up on the SBC and its programs. I have also heard them attempt to explain to others why folk in predominantly SBC churches don't understand what has happened to their denomination.

But it is sort of fun to Listen to two SBCers, one of whom about to leave Baptist life, and a former SBCer turned ABC and then Methodist, none of whom have any extensive CBF experience talk about what CBF Should have done and what we should do. :)
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:09 pm

OK, Ed. The CBF is a declining organization by almost any measure. What do you think ought to be done about it?
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Ed Pettibone » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:28 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:Ed your point is well taken about not wanting to support missionaries who teach doctrines that you strongly oppose. And certainly why a CBF church would want to promote a mission program that teaches doctrines counter to what most CBF churches teach is beyond me.


Ed: Gee Tim we have agreed twice in the last week. :wink: I was editing my post as you typed and in part I Said was,

"And quite honestly I have never heard a CBF leader say it bothers them them that a large percentage (90% may be an exaggeration) of our partnering churches remain affiliated with and supportive of the SBC cooperative program. Now I have heard some wonder why -out loud even. :) And I have head them explain why they prefer the CBF and have given up on the SBC and its programs. I have also heard them attempt to explain to others why folk in predominantly SBC churches don't understand what has happened to their denomination.

That explanation goes along the lines of the old SBC prior to 1979 led by both Moderates and conservatives with a few liberals and some fundamentalist ( here I differ from our friend Bruce G., conservative and fundamentalist are not synonymous ) was so effective many people in the pews became complacent , thinking all is well we have great leadership, we can trust them. That complacency caused them to drop their guard and they did not personally feel the changes that where being made. You in fact may recall that many laymen said "Oh nothing to really worry about the static coming out of the convention is just a preaches fight over jots and tittles."

In my view and I think in the view of many of the initial CBF leaders according to what the have written in recent years, is that Moderate leader where not well organized and in fact mistakenly attempted to avoid polarization of the SBC for to long.

When they began to organize they slowly realized the extent of the regionalism that existed the Virginia/Texas divide being a prime example. Several sub sets developed and where doing their own thing all trying to maintain a place within the SBC
which was by then controlled by a rather well knit group of insurgents, intent on not allowing any to their left a place at the leadership table.

I am absolutely persuaded that when CBF was started there was no intent among the leadership of those setting it up to leave the SBC. In hindsight it may have been somewhat naive of them to believe that they could continue to support some programs, institutions and individual they considered essential but where viewed with suspicion or even downright disdain by the new SBC leadership.

Thus CBF has elected to be a facilitating movement, partnering with many groups but needing little or no control of its partners. Again, we do not Own Smyth & Helwys, the partnering seminaries, Passport, Associated Baptist Press nor Baptist Today. CBF endorsed Chaplains are not CBF employees. I personally think it was a mistake for CBF to support a new retirement and benefits board. I was glad to here from Allen Abbot while talking with him at the recent CBF Assembly, that Many CBF pastors, church staff and some organization staff still chose to be covered by ABC's MMB. And in fact that there is the choice.

And William in reply to your "OK, Ed. The CBF is a declining organization by almost any measure. What do you think ought to be done about it?" I say gee William it is really difficult to measure CBF since there isn't another structure like it. But looking at the biblical models of faith hope and charity I think we are doing quite well thank you. Also the recent meeting in Charlotte had the 2nd largest attendance that we have ever had in 20 years, and many of those where young folk. And many of those are students at our partnering schools. To me the prospects for the future look good. I don't think we have ever had numerical strength as a goal in our mission statement.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby William Thornton » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:33 pm

Ed, I would never argue that the CBF can't round up a good crowd for a meeting. It's making a budget, etc. that seems to be difficult.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Sandy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:10 pm

CBF's claimed box score of partnering churches is about 1,800, though I think that figure is probably several years old. CBF insiders I know around here now would estimate that figure at about 1,500 now, given its budget declines. Their website shows a list of about 200 churches with links, and if you start clicking links, you'll find that an overwhelming majority of those churches are still "in friendly cooperation" with the SBC to some degree. There are several churches that I would consider "core" CBF congregations that surprised me by the level of support they still provide to the SBC. At the last GA I attended, about five or six years ago, the estimated number of churches aligned exclusively with CBF was about 120, less than 10% of the total.

I'd expect that a meeting of CBF in Charlotte, more or less the geographic heart of CBF, in the state with more partnering churches than any other, and next to Virginia and Georgia, which rank 2 and 3 respectively, would draw record attendance instead of second highest ever. And of course, being less than a half day drive from virtually half of the parterning educational institutions, you'd expect a lot of the students there.

After 20 years, CBF hasn't been able to expand its missionary base, has seen inordinately large declines in budget giving, and hasn't really developed an identity beyond being "we're not the SBC." It wasn't really a major player, in terms of actual bodies in attendance, at Carter's New Baptist Covenant gathering, which has really petered out in terms of overall participation once it moved away from the Atlanta meetings of the four African American groups that provided about 90% of the original attendance. I don't think it would be a bad thing for it to define itself more closely, since being a "fellowship" for "moderates disaffected by the SBC conservative resurgence" hasn't really worked.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Sandy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:09 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Ed, I would never argue that the CBF can't round up a good crowd for a meeting. It's making a budget, etc. that seems to be difficult.


OK, William I suppose one measure of success are budgets. But I think that is only one measure of what makes a movement/church/denomination successful. Particularly in hard economic times I'm not sure it is right now the most important measure.


CBF's budget was experiencing problems before the current economic crisis began. If it hadn't been for a couple of notable individual contributions of a hefty nature, some of the missionary personnel would have been coming home by now.

There are some good things that CBF has done. It has a very streamlined administration and staff, even for its size and budget. It has done some innovative things with regard to its governance, some of it a reaction to SBC power structure, some of it "lessons learned" from those who were part of the pre-1979 SBC leadership. It was designed to be a catch-all for moderate Baptists disaffected by the conservative takeover of the SBC. But they never succeeded in attracting even a majority of the "moderates" that didn't vote with the Patterson-Presslerites at SBC meetings.

It is probably too late for them to make reforms and changes that would open that door back up. Part of the problem is theology. There just weren't that many people, among the "moderates" in the SBC, who were willing to adopt a view of scripture other than that the Bible is "truth without any mixture of error." It was a mistake to attempt to distinguish CBF from the SBC theologically. It couldn't be done. Leadership was also a problem. CBF spent a lot of time handing out awards and lauding a lot of pre-1979 SBC big shots, not for anything in particular that they had accomplished, but because they tenaciously attempted to defend the influence and power they had in the SBC before 1979. There's a fine line between "saving the SBC from fundamentalism" and "defending the status quo," and I don't think a lot of moderate Baptists were all that interested in preserving or defending the status quo.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Tim Dahl » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:25 am

William Thornton wrote:OK, Ed. The CBF is a declining organization by almost any measure. What do you think ought to be done about it?


Yes, I know that Ed was asked the question; but I thought I would use it to beat a dead horse... Or, at least my favorite dead horse.

I sincerely believe that the CBF could encourage it's churches, especially it's uniquely aligned churches, to start planting other uniquely aligned churches. Did that make sense? I'm not saying that they shouldn't also try to revitalize dying churches. If you revitalize a dually aligned church, then I'm sure there will be an increase in their divided giving. However, I doubt that they will become uniquely aligned with the CBF. I think the CBF would get more bang for their buck, by financially supporting (that is what I mean by encouragement) church plants that are uniquely CBF church plants.

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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:38 am

Tim Dahl wrote:
William Thornton wrote:OK, Ed. The CBF is a declining organization by almost any measure. What do you think ought to be done about it?


Yes, I know that Ed was asked the question; but I thought I would use it to beat a dead horse... Or, at least my favorite dead horse.

I sincerely believe that the CBF could encourage it's churches, especially it's uniquely aligned churches, to start planting other uniquely aligned churches. Did that make sense? I'm not saying that they shouldn't also try to revitalize dying churches. If you revitalize a dually aligned church, then I'm sure there will be an increase in their divided giving. However, I doubt that they will become uniquely aligned with the CBF. I think the CBF would get more bang for their buck, by financially supporting (that is what I mean by encouragement) church plants that are uniquely CBF church plants.

Tim


I'd vote for you to be new ceo of cbf. :lol: I asked just a few days ago why no one in the CBF (that I have heard or read) speaks much about evangelism and church planting.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:52 am

William Thornton wrote:
Tim Dahl wrote:
William Thornton wrote:OK, Ed. The CBF is a declining organization by almost any measure. What do you think ought to be done about it?


Yes, I know that Ed was asked the question; but I thought I would use it to beat a dead horse... Or, at least my favorite dead horse.

I sincerely believe that the CBF could encourage it's churches, especially it's uniquely aligned churches, to start planting other uniquely aligned churches. Did that make sense? I'm not saying that they shouldn't also try to revitalize dying churches. If you revitalize a dually aligned church, then I'm sure there will be an increase in their divided giving. However, I doubt that they will become uniquely aligned with the CBF. I think the CBF would get more bang for their buck, by financially supporting (that is what I mean by encouragement) church plants that are uniquely CBF church plants.

Tim


I'd vote for you to be new ceo of cbf. :lol: I asked just a few days ago why no one in the CBF (that I have heard or read) speaks much about evangelism and church planting.


Ed: William, I have an idea that you just have not been paying attention. Among the work shops listed in the program for this years Assembly the very first was Church Planting/Faith Sharing Ministries. For some time now the over arching theme of CBF has been, Being the hands and feet of Christ. And all of the workshops demonstrate how that is being done. Work shops are presented with a hope that some one or perhaps many, will be encouraged to develop a similar ministry somewhere else that a similar need exist.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:36 am

So a group needs to use the word evangelism in order to be in the business of evangelizing?

Pretty sure that when Vestal talks about being a missional church and specifically being the presence of Christ, he understands that to involve sharing the Good News....
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:13 pm

Ed and BDW, we all get to opine and that based on our perceptions of things. Since I'm an outsider whose CBF news comes from you guys, a few meetings, ABP, Baptists Today and The Fellowship, I almost always include caveats with mine on the CBF. Perhaps mine are off base here. I'd be pleased if they are. Nonetheless, the SBC has a verifiable record on church plants. It may be anemic, underwhelming or whatever, there are numerous SBC churches planted every year. I just don't see that with the CBF.

When I hear from the CBF a steady diet of "being the presence of God," I get that old feeling that authentic evangelism that includes lostness and salvation by grace through faith in Christ is not a priority. Maybe I'm wrong there as well. Again, I hope so. I don't hear Vestal speaking with the same fervor as 15 years ago. Maybe I'm wrong there as well.

With so few available CBF pulpits and so little CBF church planting, I still wonder where all the divinity school grads are going.

But, the CBF can have some pretty good meetin's, do a lot of backslapping...just like the SBC.
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:01 pm

Ed: William writes in part;

A"When I hear from the CBF a steady diet of "being the presence of God," I get that old feeling that authentic evangelism that includes lostness and salvation by grace through faith in Christ is not a priority. Maybe I'm wrong there as well. Again, I hope so. I don't hear Vestal speaking with the same fervor as 15 years ago. Maybe I'm wrong there as well.

Ed: And if you where really listing you would know that indeed there are many CBFers Around the world being the presence of God. come to our BFNE fall retreat n New Jersey in October and I will introduce you to some of them. Come early enough and we can run over to Metropolitan Baptist Church at the edge of Hells Kitchen. and Down to Restoration Baptist Church and their ministry to the subsidized apartments called the Albany projects, in Brooklyn. Meet Dr. Manor Tyson who's Waterbury Baptist Church rents space in a beautiful Presbyterian church building where they misters mostly to street people. Manor and his wife Ronie, both are Graduates of the Social Work School that was at SBTC until Al Mohler declared accredited social work programs incompatible with seminary education. And Randy Parks who is a CBF certified Chaplin at retirement facility in Jersey., You already Know Trudy and I. There will also be two of our couples who minister to students ,often international students and A lady Church planter from Main. There may also be a group there from MA. who attend Swansea Baptiat Church which was for a short time an SBC Church plant until their pastor got friendly with CBF and the HMB said that was un acceptable. when we came to the NE 6 years ago they had already been CBF for at least 6years they have members who have never been any type of baptist other than CBF.

And If you Talk to Danial he will tell you about the spiritual journey he has been on for several years now that had led him to work more in spiritual development than in dip em and drop em evangelism. It is not that he has lost the fervor he simply has rechanneled it. Talking to him in person over a couple meals in recent years I find an even more mature Dan Vestal than I first met several years ago. And he works at being an Executive Coordinator rather than CEO as you mistakenly labeled him n a post yesterday.

Wm:B. With so few available CBF pulpits and so little CBF church planting, I still wonder where all the divinity school grads are going.

Ed: I am not sure that there as "so few available CBF pulpits as Sandy has pointed out a good number of the early CBF pastors have retired and more are reaching retirement age and there are many seminary students who are not interested in the pastorate some of those aspire to other staff positions. Also many are entering a wide variety of Chaplain positions some are coming to ABC-USA, some are black students who are met with welcome arms in traditional black churches. Surprising to me are the number of SBC churches that are recruiting through CBF Trudy had some conversation with a few of those before being called to Burnt Hills.

Wm: C. But, the CBF can have some pretty good meetin's, do a lot of backslapping...just like the SBC.

Ed: William some folk who have never been to both post takeover SBC annual meetings and CBF Assemblies may buy that
"just like the SBC" , Hokum, but several of us on these boards have been to both and we know better. :D
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Re: SBC Plodder on Lottie Moon, WMU's Weatherford and CBF

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:38 pm

William Thornton wrote:
With so few available CBF pulpits and so little CBF church planting, I still wonder where all the divinity school grads are going.


Good question. I don't know that many recent grads who preach on a regular basis. Now, I know of many who would like to preach on a regular basis. If lucky, they get a job as part-time youth minister or children's minister. Some might get a two-year grant to work at a church somewhere. A McAfee grad friend of mine went this route. The grant subsidized 50% of his salary. Once his two-years were up, he stayed on at the church but picked up a job at Best Buy. A seminary grad I know is working right for a local company that waters plants (sure there is a more appropriate name for this job). Another recent seminary grad works for a local non-profit.

As an aside, my mother-in-law graduated from Truett back in December and recently started working for the local association doing consulting on a church planting project.
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Scott Erwin of this board is ready to preach

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:21 am

I think this board can help. He is a CN Grad and done some work at Princeton. He deserves to be fastracked into a CBF pulpit that pays a decent living wage; and or some dually aligned situation ready to be led further toward the promised land.
Not exactly open to annual call, but I think he is open to a discussion of a triennial contract of some sort :)
I am not his agent. He certainly did not ask me to do this, but in good humor and some sincerity, don't be shy about being an advocate on his behalf; and no Ed we do not need a publicthird degree process on this board cause we all know nonewould pass the Ed P test.
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Re: Scott Erwin of this board is ready to preach

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:39 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:I think this board can help. He is a CN Grad and done some work at Princeton. He deserves to be fastracked into a CBF pulpit that pays a decent living wage; and or some dually aligned situation ready to be led further toward the promised land.
Not exactly open to annual call, but I think he is open to a discussion of a triennial contract of some sort :)
I am not his agent. He certainly did not ask me to do this, but in good humor and some sincerity, don't be shy about being an advocate on his behalf; and no Ed we do not need a publicthird degree process on this board cause we all know nonewould pass the Ed P test.


Ed: Steve, when have I ever put anyone through the third degree. I am not a Mason. :wink: I have on several occasions asked some hard questions of some who presented ideas that I find questionable, just as some have questioned me. That is an old Baptist tradition. But I concede I am not on any search committee that might be considering Scott. And I am sure that he has not used me as a reference. Remember Stephen, it was Aaron Weaver not I, who challenged the import of your claim to the most intellectual among those you graduated with from H.S.. And I thought William had a good response. If you recall I wrote a positive review of Lamar Wadsworth's book om the Amazon site. And I have said a ton of good things about Flick. As for intellectuals no one has been sad to see the inactivity of Eric Mason and Rick Wight. And I don't think Bruce G. is interested in being a pastor and Banning Norm was not the brightest thing he has allowed of his staff. Jonathan ??? Although I may have some differences with Dave Roberts I hold him in high esteem and would recommend him to some churches. Quite honestly Steve I have been in 6 church at the time they voted on a pastoral candidate and only once did I vote No and they hired him anyway. :roll: :brick:
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I meant it as jest

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:57 pm

but maybe it didn't translate that way; a tease, not a taunt.
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Stephen Fox
 
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Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm

WMU's Weatherford and CBF/Feisty

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:54 am

"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 7843
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm

SBC Ploder and SBCVoices; Is there a difference on WMU

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:28 am

http://sbcvoices.com/the-struggle-of-women-in-the-sbc/

Does the Plodder pull back from Brandon SMith's JULY 20 conclusions on WMU and Women; Rankin's "rebuke"?
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 7843
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm

Lottie and the Heathen

Postby Stephen Fox » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:15 am

The letter is out there
"I'm the only sane {person} in here." Doyle Hargraves, Slingblade
"Midget, Broom; Helluva campaign". Political consultant, "Oh, Brother..."


http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com or google asfoxseesit
Stephen Fox
 
Posts: 7843
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2007 9:29 pm


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