Tim Rogers and SBC Today

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Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby William Thornton » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:50 pm

I cannot pass up such a softball as TimR2, Tim Rogers, has served up on the Burleson threat. Tim, whom I have always liked and with whom I have had numerous cordial exchanges along with a disagreement or two, has put on display below something that is, well, not so attractive. Maybe he is having a bad day or a bad month or a bad year. I don't know.

Tim is one of the collaborators in theSBC Today blog, a blog that I like and that I regularly check. SBC Today has a tag line "Restoring Unity Through Biblical Discipleship and Baptist Identity." Well...uh...sure...but maybe the SBCT brain trust oughta read Tim's stuff here and have a workout session.

SBC Today's latest blog article, not by Tim, is How Lost People See Us...well...uh...I dunno, Tim, why don't you take a shot at answering that question?

If Tim is having a bad millenium, it's quite easy to delete or edit your own posts and start over. Try it.

:)
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Tom Parker » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:18 pm

TR and David Worley have recently turned the SBC Today into something that is nothing like restoring unity. Maybe for these two contributors to SBC Today have a different meaning for unity than most of us do.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Haruo » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:10 am

Restoring unity through showing disrespect to everyone who refuses to be in unity with us on anything?

It has been an interesting exchange to read from the sidelines. Personally I don't think if a person attacked in a private anonymous letter makes that letter public that there is any reason to jump to the conclusion that the letter is correct in its attacks. I don't know whether Wade's kids are okay with his publicizing their misfortunes. If they are, fine; the truth shall set you free (as I was taught in the Bible), and we're only as sick as our secrets (as I was taught in AA). If they're not okay with it, then Wade may have a job ahead of him. I'm fairly sure Tim Rogers doesn't know which is the case.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby William Thornton » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:24 am

Tom Parker wrote:TR and David Worley have recently turned the SBC Today into something that is nothing like restoring unity. Maybe for these two contributors to SBC Today have a different meaning for unity than most of us do.


I have no objection to SBC Today pushing Baptist Identity or whatever their pet cause is. This is about the ad hominems and slanders of Tim Rogers, something unworthy of him. Surely, he will pause to reflect on all this.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Chris » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:10 am

William Thornton wrote:SBC Today's latest blog article, not by Tim, is How Lost People See Us...well...uh...I dunno, Tim, why don't you take a shot at answering that question?


I read David Worley's piece. Thanks for the link. I am very surprised that David hasn't deleted all the opposing comments. They were in the majority.
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Linked universe of Tim Rogers

Postby Stephen Fox » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:01 am

http://www.dennyburk.com/review-of-%E2% ... %E2%80%9D/

Turned up the interesting review above; just a few clicks away from Tim Roger's home page.

interesting exercise; More grace from the reviewer than one could've imagined from Bill Powell, Eldridge Miller and the SBC ADvocate just thirty years ago.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Haruo » Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:51 am

Chris wrote:
William Thornton wrote:SBC Today's latest blog article, not by Tim, is How Lost People See Us...well...uh...I dunno, Tim, why don't you take a shot at answering that question?


I read David Worley's piece. Thanks for the link. I am very surprised that David hasn't deleted all the opposing comments. They were in the majority.

I read it too, and was very favorably moved by Ryan Abernathy's comment. I don't think I've ever heard of Abernathy. Great response, though.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Sandy » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:46 am

There's a difference between unity and conformity that seems to trouble those who have enough connections to think of themselves as insiders when it comes to SBC leadership. Wade Burleson was certainly part of the unity, when it came to theological and spiritual matters in the denomination. But he, and others, who have spoken up out of their own convictions against things they saw as inconsitent with that unity of purpose, they became enemies, rabble-rousers, and "liberals," and no longer part of the inner circle.

As the churches collectively age, slip behind the growth curve in terms of their ability to do evangelistic outreach in the culture at large, and the statistics have inevitably slipped as well, the leadership core seems compelled to shoot itself in the foot by thinking that if they just "do the right thing" in their own mind, and come up with the right programs and advice to push from the denominational level, it will have some kind of an impact. In their mind, conformity is the necessary ingredient to revive and restore the SBC.

Wade, as a result of what happened to him as an IMB trustee, has become a sort of whistle-blower in other areas, hence the Ergun Caner issue, though Wade was not the only one who exposed the problem and the evidence presented has turned out to be accurate. I think the SBC leadership needs to take a long look at how this kind of thing, among others, is perceived among the "grass roots" for the answers as to why CP giving is falling faster than attendance, and why messenger participation at the convention has reached lows not seen since World War II.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Chris » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:47 pm

Sandy wrote:...the Ergun Caner issue...


I'm not familiar with this. Can you get me up to speed?
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby William Thornton » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:08 pm

Chris wrote:
Sandy wrote:...the Ergun Caner issue...


I'm not familiar with this. Can you get me up to speed?


Sure. Start with Gourley's topic: http://forums.baptistlife.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8103&start=0

Check FBCJax watchdog:http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/04/caner-should-resign-at-liberty.html and http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/2010/04/ergun-caner-growing-up-i-learned-about.html

Each of these has numerous links.

Ergun Caner is Liberty, Falwell's school.

Emir Caner, brother, is head of a GA Baptist College and is not the subject of all the hoopla.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby TimR2 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:08 am

Sandy wrote:Wade, as a result of what happened to him as an IMB trustee, has become a sort of whistle-blower in other areas, hence the Ergun Caner issue, though Wade was not the only one who exposed the problem and the evidence presented has turned out to be accurate.


Sandy, you need to get your facts correct. WB was recruiting pastors in Ok back in 2006 to try and get Dr.(can you say earned)Caner removed from public speaking engagements across the SBC.
Half the world is composed of people who have something to say and can’t, and the other half who have nothing to say and keep on saying it.- Robert Frost
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Sandy » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:16 am

http://sbctoday.com/2010/04/16/how-lost-people-see-us/

I don't think that apologetic for bad behavior among evangelical Christians is what Peter had in mind when he penned I Peter 3:13-17.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Wade Burleson » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:48 am

TimR2 wrote:
Sandy wrote:Wade, as a result of what happened to him as an IMB trustee, has become a sort of whistle-blower in other areas, hence the Ergun Caner issue, though Wade was not the only one who exposed the problem and the evidence presented has turned out to be accurate.


Sandy, you need to get your facts correct. WB was recruiting pastors in Ok back in 2006 to try and get Dr.(can you say earned)Caner removed from public speaking engagements across the SBC.


Tim Rogers,

Sigh. Sir, I think you are probably a really fine man at heart. I think we may have spoken at the Southern Baptist Convention a couple of times. I did not, as you suggest, know you were TimR2 here in this forum until William Thornton pointed it out in his post. I often confuse you and Tim Guthrie. Please forgive me. Maybe I should ask Tim Guthrie to forgive me.

Tim Rogers, once again, you have lied. The quote you gave to Sandy about me ""recruiting pastors" in Oklahoma back in 2006 to try and get Dr. Caner removed from public speaking engagments across the SBC" is a baldface fabrication. You have now lied about me and my children, lied about my feeding information to Debbie Kaufman for her posts, lied about an alleged vendetta I have against Dr. Caner, and now lied about me recruting pastors to try to remove Ergun Caner from public platforms in 2006. As William Thornton has repeatedly asked, give one shred of evidence of the veracity of your claims. You cannot.

I do not know what is wrong with you. Seriously. I am concerned. You may think that you can protect Ergun Caner by making others think there is a "liberal" agenda and attack on the "conservative" Caner. That kind of logic used to work. Unfortunately for you, with the Internet, when a man lies, it comes back to haunt him. You are about to star in your own horror movie.

In 2006 I had no interest in Ergun Caner, period. In 2010, you continue to feed my interest. In 2006 I wouldn't have cared where Ergun Caner speaks. IN 2010, I have a serious interest in where he speaks and what he represents as truth--but it is all because of the descrepancies I've heard with my own ears in the last few weeks. Thanks to the Internet, the messages and speeches that Caner has given himself since 2001 are available for all to hear. Why are there descrepancies in his stories? It is a simple question that deserves an answer.

Frankly, Tim Rogers, with what now seems to be a proclivity in you to fabricate untruths to protect Ergun Caner, I am also concerned about your appearance in any SBC public setting as well. But, as in Caner's case, that is a concern that has only risen in the spring of 2010.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Haruo » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:50 pm

Wade, what evidence do you have that Mr. Rogers has been fabricating these lies. Obviously they are lies, but where is the evidence that he originated them? For all I know, they may have originated in the secularistic Turkish military, or by some anti-SBC Landmark type like Moz. Or fed to him by the Methodists, or by al-Qaeda, for all I know. Again I must ask, show me one shred of evidence that TimR2 actually came up with his own lies.

(tic)
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Wade Burleson » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:09 pm

Haruo wrote:Wade, what evidence do you have that Mr. Rogers has been fabricating these lies. Obviously they are lies, but where is the evidence that he originated them? For all I know, they may have originated in the secularistic Turkish military, or by some anti-SBC Landmark type like Moz. Or fed to him by the Methodists, or by al-Qaeda, for all I know. Again I must ask, show me one shred of evidence that TimR2 actually came up with his own lies.

(tic)


Well, of course, Hauro, you are right. TimR2 may not have come up with his own lies. He may have borrowed them . However, when terrorists detonate a nuclear bomb, nobody cares who invented it, but are rightly outraged at the fools who use it.

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Caner brothers and Booktv

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:22 pm

Wade:
Hope you will give careful consideration to www.booktv.org panel last night with Packer, George PAcker, Muslim Scholar Tariq and others for further discussion you may have with the Caner Brothers.
And do tell us the latest on Ben Cole, if you could indulge an aside here.
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Re: Caner brothers and Booktv

Postby Wade Burleson » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:35 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:Wade:
Hope you will give careful consideration to http://www.booktv.org panel last night with Packer, George PAcker, Muslim Scholar Tariq and others for further discussion you may have with the Caner Brothers.
And do tell us the latest on Ben Cole, if you could indulge an aside here.
Thanks

Sfox


Fox,

Ben seems to be doing quite well in Washington, D.C., working in the political arena. I will occasionally catch a glimpse of him behind some Senator or Representative who is signing a bill--one most likely written by Ben. He has left the Southern Baptist Convention and joined the Roman Catholic Church.

I will check out the booktv.org debate with Packer when I get a chance. As far as any further discussion with the Caner brothers, that would be something beneficial, but not anticipated if the lack of response from the President's office to my inquiries is any indication.
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Re: Caner brothers and Booktv

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:51 pm

Wade Burleson wrote:[Ben Cole] has left the Southern Baptist Convention and joined the Roman Catholic Church.


Some might say that's what the Baylor experience will do to ya :lol:
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby William Thornton » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:28 am

Tim, facts want to be your friend, bro. Try and find some. They are helpful.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Chris » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:58 am

William, you are getting close to going "over the line" with this.

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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby scottaerwin » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:06 pm

I liked it better before.

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Scott and Wade

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:28 am

Wade:
Interesting news about Ben Cole. thanks for passing it on. If you have email exchange with him do send the Booktv link; something he should have working conversational knowledge about giving his evolving influence on Capitol Hill.
Some :D ; but no kidding as well.

Scott: The Ft Payne Cracker Barrell cabal is trying to get in touch with you. We have some promising leads.
Do Check in soon as you can; and forgive me for the public notice; I misplaced your email and appparentley you don't check PM's here which I find frustrating as well.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby William Thornton » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:29 pm

TimR2 seems to have settled back into SBC Today to do some blogging there. The great unwashed masses of blog readers apparently need a 1400 word piece on beverage acohol, abstinence, and Scriptural authority. Tim declaims:

Scriptural authority says that scripture is the rule of one’s life. Principles found in Scripture may not be something one feels is best because of circumstances, but one submits to that principle because one believes Scripture is above individual wisdom. When one changes one’s position of a scriptural principle based on a circumstantial event, the doctrine of scriptural inerrancy is diluted.


Good paragraph...

...which reminds me that I asked Tim here about two of the many things he has said HERE recently:

William Thornton wrote:Tim, you denied saying Rankin was a "bitter old man." I gave your exact words ("he appears as an old bitter person...he certainly is coming across as a very bitter old person"). What do you have to say about that?

You said "I believe he [WB] has made up this email..." When I reminded you of your words, you say, "I did not accuse him of manufacturing the email..." Exactly what is the difference between "made up" and "manufacturing" or do you just deny your exact words that are right here in the record? Sheesh.


Both of these questions go to important questions of Scriptural authority, specifically the latter which Tim either lies or slanders Burleson. Presumably, telling the truth is as important as abstaining from beverage alcohol.

I have nothing personal against Tim Rogers and he has had ample time to address these before today, but when I get a lesson from a blogger about principles and Biblical authority, I at least expect an honest effort from the writer to demonstrate that he or she attempts to follow the principles he or she espouses.

..but maybe I am missing something with Tim, something that puts him above the principles and Scripture that he holds up for others.

No, I'm not mad about it. Just a bit flummoxed. Is there some method by which one can move from one arena (BaptistLife) where one's behavior causes serious questions about Christian conduct or lack thereof and just saunter over to another arena (SBCToday) and continue the Bible lesson for the day?

Any reasonable answer, explanation, or apology will be sufficient for me to forget all this, delete this post and move on.
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:30 pm

Regarding point one, there is a difference between calling someone a "bitter old man" and saying "he appears as a bitter old man" or "he seems to be a bitter old man" or "he comes across as a bitter old man"

Not too long ago, I used similar language to express uncertainty. Those words were taken from BL.com, plastered on blog and my expression of uncertainty was completely lost in the mix which put me in a negative light (the blogger's original intent of course).

As to the second point, it's too bad we're not using Jonathan's logic in the John Lewis /N-word thread. By that logic, one would have to conclude that Burleson manufactured the email unless of course Burleson or Friend or Burleson were to provide proof via YouTube clip of course. After all, if it didn't happen in YouTube, it didn't happen at all...
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Re: Tim Rogers and SBC Today

Postby Haruo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:57 pm

Pssst ... William ... why should he provide an apology or explanation to you, a self-described moderate, of all people? ;-)

Of course you're a self-described moderate! TimR2 himself so described you!
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