Prez election...

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Prez election...

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:15 pm

I cast my vote, only one I had since none of the brethren gave me theirs. Frank Page for me.

Biggest pile of nonsense are often these nominating speeches...but give the brethren a little ministerial leeway. Get this: In nominating R Floyd, Mr. 0.27%, Johnny Hunt actually said that Floyd would lead the denomination to greater heights in CP giving. No, really, he said that. Starting from less than one percent, I suppose it wouldn't be hard to raise that...
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Re: Prez election...

Postby T. D. Webb » Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:16 pm

William Thornton wrote:I cast my vote, only one I had since none of the brethren gave me theirs. Frank Page for me.


You voted for the winner, William! Sure wish you would vote for Burleson's motion. . .


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Postby William Thornton » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:03 pm

Well, how about that: Page 50.5% wins. Sutton & Floyd both close to 25%. Floyd third. Both nominators for Sutton and Floyd invoked some of the big SBC names, Pressler and Patterson clearly lent their names to the two.

Good. Glad to see it. It certainly turned on the Cooperative Program, Floyd couldn't shake the 0.27%, didn't even try, IMO. Sutton was late in the thing. All are decent and good folks...Page certainly expresses my idea of the future of the SBC.

Who wins? bloggers, Burleson, small guys, new blood, younger leaders, folks that hear the CP sacred cow mooing and believe it ought to be fed.

Who loses? P & P temporarily. The SBC executive committee which looked absolutely silly with their CP study committee flip/flop. Small tent guys.
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Postby Chris » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:52 pm

William Thornton wrote:Floyd third.


I believe Floyd was SECOND. See my figures on the other forum. I wrote them down as they were beingd read.
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Postby Mark » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:10 pm

Chris wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Floyd third.


I believe Floyd was SECOND. See my figures on the other forum. I wrote them down as they were beingd read.


You are correct, Chris. (Hey, our over-paid moderator is from Georgia... Don't expect too much. :) :D )

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Postby Sandy » Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:16 pm

The vote totals are interesting, in that it was virtually a 50-50 split between the "Young Conservative Blogger Reformers" on the one hand and the "Pressler-Pattersonites" on the other.

Perhaps there is a silver lining in this cloud for Ronnie Floyd, Jerry Sutton and most of the other SBC mega-church pastors. They can breathe a sigh of relief that the pressure will be off, at least for a while, for them to increase their Cooperative Program giving. The executive committee also stopped short of mandating a minimum percentage of CP support in order to serve on a trustee board and grandfathered their other rules for "broadening the tent" so the members of their churches can still continue to serve in disproportionate numbers. I like the limitations on spouses of employees, and the waiting period between rotation from one board to another, but they don't go far enough. In a denomination of an alleged 16 million members, a person should be eligible to serve as a trustee on one board, for two terms, and then not be eligible for any other denominational board again. And under no circumstance should the relative or spouse of an employee, especially an executive employee, be allowed to serve on the board for the agency where their spouse is employed.

By electing Page, the SBC messengers, although still only representing a small fraction of the churches, didn't exactly say "NO!" to the so-called conservative resurgence. But they did say, "boo!"
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Thoughts about the 2006 SBC annual meeting, part 1

Postby Jonathan » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:09 pm

Thanks for these reports William. I would have been there as a messenger from my church if I could have been in the same time zone this week.

I agree with much that has been said about this election. I don't see this as a watershed so much as a shot across the bow of the current good ole boy system.

I like Floyd's preaching and think that even some of his writing is pretty good stuff (his book that discussed a fast was not bad). But his candidacy represented an attempt to keep control in a small number of hands. It likely failed before the vote by the presence of Sutton in the mix. You had Floyd pushed by the PP's and many agency heads and then you had Sutton (the most recent chronicler of the needs of the resurregence) another popular and widely known conservative. That fact that the PP's couldn't get to Sutton to keep him from running does show a significant diminution of their political power.

Page's candidacy represented an outlet for all of those conservatives who, like myself, have grown tired of how insular the the current leadership has grown. There was much celebration in my hotel early this morning but it had nothing to do with things SBC and everything to do with something the locals call "football" (that is played by men in shorts with no padding and very little apparent upperbody strength. :) ). My for me, I took about 5-10 seconds to celebrate this election (raising a glass of strange tasting diet coke) and then I'll check out of my hotel, get on a packed ferry and be reminded of why SBC and the CP should exist.

While I'm considering questions like, "Is this the start of a mini-resurrgence or just a re-alignment?", "Does this prove out my decade old theory about the older and younger generation gap in the SBC?", "Is Sandy quite possibly the worst spinner of bad news for Democrats since George Stephanopolis?" :) my boat will pass through an area where it is likely that less than 0.27% of the population has even heard the name "Jesus Christ" much less of what He did for the "joy set before Him".

Does this mean that I think that the SBC annual meeting to be trivial? Not at all. While I don't believe that the SBC (or any other North American based group) is the world's last and best hope, I do believe that God, in His sovereign purposes, is clearly using this large, often institutionally top heavy, often tone death, way often triumphantalist over inside stuff ('our mudpies are the greatest mudpies in the history of the Kingdom') as an important platform for reaching the unreached. And I have some hope that an immediate result of the 2006 meeting will be that a number of folks will reflect on why we do what we do (and what is done with the funds that we gather, jointly, into the CP). Sure, I'm cynical enough that I expect read some PP acolyte to do an impression of Bush '41 after the New Hampshire primary ("Message received") and Clinton after the '94 mid-terms ("I am still relevant") as well as expecting to read some irrationally exhuberant blogger use terms like "revolution" and phrases like "this ship has turned". But I am hopeful that this brief rejection (or a vote of no confidence) in certain current power brokers will bear positive fruit. I have some hope that this will result in a chastening of folks who think that the SBC commitee structure is they own little playground and that the SBC is not as monolithic as advertised. But I hope most that this results in a movement that leads to a real analysis of the SBC by Southern Baptists....an analysis that will lead to a renewed focus on first things.
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Postby Mark » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:00 pm

Jonathan wrote:While I don't believe that the SBC (or any other North American based group) is the world's last and best hope, I do believe that God, in His sovereign purposes, is clearly using ________ as an important platform for reaching the unreached... [while] bear[ing] positive fruit... [and] a renewed focus on first things...



Passionate, thought-provoking, and well-formulated insights as always, Jonathan... Seriously. 8)

Any chance the _________, above, could be "filled in" with names from among our fine moderate Baptist mission organizations and state conventions?
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Postby William Thornton » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:11 pm

Mark wrote:
Chris wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Floyd third.


I believe Floyd was SECOND. See my figures on the other forum. I wrote them down as they were beingd read.


You are correct, Chris. (Hey, our over-paid moderator is from Georgia... Don't expect too much. :) :D )

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You cannot hear in this coliseum, especially the guy that handles voting instructions...anyway, that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it.
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Postby William Thornton » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:20 pm

Let the bloggers bloviate and celebrate, they certainly deserve part of the credit. The thing is that blogging keeps stuff in front of a good number of interested, active, often motivated baptists. The figure 0.27% would not be as familiar if we only had a story or two over the past months by bp.

After that, though, let's be realistic about the young bloggers. I am neither and page was easily my choice. Add to that a fairly close vote on the 10% solution/fiasco of the Exec. Comm. and the resounding slap of the same group over WMU, and you've got a different day. Folks are tired of the same old crowd, their spouses, their church members, their dogs and cats being put on all the boards etc.
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Postby T. D. Webb » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:36 pm

Yes, William the basis for the actions today, no doubt, already existed. However, IMHO, the catylyst was that the Lord used the young turks of "blogdom" to air the SBC's "dirty linen" so that it could no longer be ignored by the mainline media venues. The fact is that NONE of the bloggers were out for personal positions of office or power in the SBC in their actions to press for these changes. That is still the case (Not that some of them would not make great SBC leaders in the future!). They have the long term best interests of the SBC being submissive to Christ's gospel and The Great Commission as their prime motive. . .not the entrenchment of political power and control over the SBC as their goal. They must be continually vigilant in sticking to this priority in the future, lest they become like those they replace.


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Postby David Flick » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:03 am

William Thornton wrote:Well, how about that: Page 50.5% wins. Sutton & Floyd both close to 25%. Floyd third. Both nominators for Sutton and Floyd invoked some of the big SBC names, Pressler and Patterson clearly lent their names to the two.

I thought the nomination speeches were hilarious. The one for Sutton had the most hourmous quote. Dr. Calvin Whitman, when giving the litney about Sutton's educational background, said in his best SBC preacher-tone, "Dr. Jerry Sutton stuttered at Southwestern Baptist Seminary..."

:lol: :lol:
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Postby Jonathan » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:47 am

Mark wrote:
Jonathan wrote:While I don't believe that the SBC (or any other North American based group) is the world's last and best hope, I do believe that God, in His sovereign purposes, is clearly using ________ as an important platform for reaching the unreached... [while] bear[ing] positive fruit... [and] a renewed focus on first things...



Passionate, thought-provoking, and well-formulated insights as always, Jonathan... Seriously. 8)

Any chance the _________, above, could be "filled in" with names from among our fine moderate Baptist mission organizations and state conventions?


I'll skip past "chance" on the way to "given". There are any number of non-SBC groups that God is using as platforms to reach the unreached. Of course, each of these groups have their own institutional struggles, political players, and folks in love with their own voices/keyboards don't they?
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Postby Mark » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:05 am

Jonathan wrote:Of course, each of these groups have their own institutional struggles, political players, and folks in love with their own voices/keyboards don't they?...


Naaah... Just the SBC. :wink: :) :D
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