More Paige Patterson Damage

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More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:11 am

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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:44 am

Let the matter be fully aired and litigated. This is the plaintiff's filing. Let's see where it goes. It is ugly.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:15 am

William Thornton wrote:Let the matter be fully aired and litigated. This is the plaintiff's filing. Let's see where it goes. It is ugly.


It appears Paige wanted to stop the charges in the legal system for criminal law, so he doesn't really believe in "fully aired and litigated." Now it will be, and in civil court where the burden of proof is lower than in criminal court and a lot of SWBTS money will be spent defending him.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:24 am

Dave Roberts wrote:I have trouble believing this behavior from one claiming to be "a man of God."
I make no defense whatsoever for Paige Patterson's actions, but do not "have trouble believing this behavior from one claiming to be 'a man of God'." Certainly we would prefer not to see such behaviour. Nevertheless, "men of God" are men of like passions as we all, and if the Bible and history proves nothing else, it proves how low a "man of God" can sink. We have such testimony over and over. Patterson hasn't sunk as low as many, and I expect part of the general indignation expressed (not necessarily you) is because of who this man of God is.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Haruo » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:13 am

Was David, the giant-killing type of Christ and apple of God's eye, a man of God?
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:28 pm

I'm afraid I was sour-grapeing Patterson for things he said about so-called liberals back a few years ago when he was questioning if they were "men of God" since they wouldn't subscribe to inerrancy. Guess I remember too much of what he said of others.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:14 pm

I understand. If he did all that is alleged in the lawsuit filing, it is bad.

One thing that helps separate some men of God who behave badly from others who behave badly is repentance and remorse. Don't recall seeing any in this case.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:38 am

Rvaughn wrote:I understand. If he did all that is alleged in the lawsuit filing, it is bad.

One thing that helps separate some men of God who behave badly from others who behave badly is repentance and remorse. Don't recall seeing any in this case.


And I honestly don't think you ever will.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Rvaughn » Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:15 am

I won't be holding my breath, waiting.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:36 am

Post-Birmingham, the response to the way the convention addressed the sexual abuse crisis in their own house was a lot of feel-good back patting and explanations of how the actions they took will lead to real resolution of the problems. They got it "on the stage" (in a carefully orchestrated way, but it was "up there") discussed it in a controlled environment, kept the rally outside and far enough away so that there was a buffer. There's one more vote next year to put the proposal in place and enable the convention to take more immediate action against churches that don't take decisive action against abusers. The response from the victims and their supporters is "Yeah, we see the PR show, but we've seen and heard it all before. The jury is out until we actually see actions to match the words." Clearly they have more confidence in J.D. Greear than in previous resurgence-endorsed presidents but it's still "wait and see and we don't have a lot of patience anymore."

I think that perspective could be vastly improved when Southern Baptists across the board stop prefacing their remarks regarding Patterson with, "Of course, he did a good thing by stepping up and leading the conservative resurgence, but...." He was one of the "architects" of the resurgence, universally acknowledged as such. Apparently, Dr. Greenway at Southwestern has seen the wisdom of cleansing the campus of any last vestiges of the Patterson presidency including getting rid of the windows (should have smashed them so Liberty couldn't get them) and giving Patterson's staff deputies a nice farewell and "don't let the door hit your rear on the way out." The SBC needs to give some sort of acknowledgement in the same way. They need to use their new procedure to tell the church he now belongs to that they need to remove the Pattersons from the roll or the convention will disfellowship the church for harboring someone who aided and abetted a sexual abuser.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby William Thornton » Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:18 pm

I think your view of the abuse actions are off, Sandy. You usually have good instincts about these things. When I have time I'll explain what's different.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:35 pm

Depending on Texas laws, Patterson might qualify for obstruction of justice for trying to "break down" the sole witness. In Virginia, that is a felony.
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Re: More Paige Patterson Damage

Postby Sandy » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:25 pm

William Thornton wrote:I think your view of the abuse actions are off, Sandy. You usually have good instincts about these things. When I have time I'll explain what's different.


I'm shocked that they actually got a bylaw change and a recommendation to change the constitution to streamline the process for the convention to take action when they feel it is warranted. Greear's reaction and leadership is absolutely different than anything that might have happened previously and as I said it appears he is the key to being taken seriously on this issue. But I understand the doubts, some of which I read on SBC Voices.

Patterson is connected to the abuse crisis as a result of his actions, or lack thereof, regarding incidents of sexual abuse and rape that took place on campuses for which he was responsible. Beyond that, his leadership at both of the SBC seminaries he served was incompetent and damaging. So the obligatory statements about the necessity of the resurgence which seem to say "he's excused" need to stop.
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