Adrian Rogers

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Adrian Rogers

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:42 am

Christian Index says their Opinion piece of the Year is on Rogers as the Conservative Resurgence Prophet. What follows I just posted on their facebook page




Stephen M. Fox Adrian Rogers. I don't see any honest thinking Christian can read Wuthnow's Rough Country and now Ansley Quiros remarkable God With Us and Come to any other conclusion. He had a second rate mind as Molly Worthen makes clear in her book on inerrancy The Apostles of Reason. What you have done is an ill informed whitewash.......Quiros is published by uncpress and the introduction of her book Sweet Jesus and the unbearable madness is online through a google search for preview, uncpress.
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Re: Adrian Rogers: Bircher or CR Prophet?

Postby Rvaughn » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:01 am

I Google-searched Christian Index and found the article (the Index itself didn't seem to have a search engine).
Adrian Rogers: Prophet of the Conservative Resurgence
It seems to me that Rogers was a significant figure of the Conservative Resurgence, regardless of what negative points can be made about him, however accurate or inaccurate.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:01 pm

Stephen, hope you had a great Christmas.

I've deleted your slander but left your idiotic opinions. No one insists that you have to make sense.

BTW, I'm working on a late Christmas present for you that will knock your socks off. Guaranteed.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:06 pm

Ron hale, author of the piece, did a workmanlike job. The title is overwrought but clearly Adrian was the leading public spokesman for the CR. I doubt it would have happened without him.
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Billy Birt Jr

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:06 pm

I'm guessing you have a lunch set up with me and BBJr. It's okay if I guessed wrong. Wrong or right it is something I am very interested in but not gonna happen the first of January whatever the surprise is unless you can send it in the mail. When I proposed Zebs and a grave visit I honestly thought I would have my car fixed and could leave Upstate in any direction and day adventure I could imagine. As is I am at the mercy of others plans for my return.

Thanks for thinking of me and I do hope to get to the grave and hopefully Zebs sometime in 19
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby Sandy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:53 pm

William Thornton wrote:Ron hale, author of the piece, did a workmanlike job. The title is overwrought but clearly Adrian was the leading public spokesman for the CR. I doubt it would have happened without him.


Do I detect a bit of Mid-America Seminary bias there? I'd agree that Adrian Rogers was a key public figure as well as behind-the-scenes active in pushing the conservative resurgence forward, but it seems a little overstated to say that it wouldn't have happened without him. Had it depended solely on Patterson and Pressler, I'd agree, it wouldn't have happened and Rogers was the first megapastor they settled on to get it started and then, to buck it up after it appeared to be faltering a bit (though I don't think it was ever in any real danger) but there were a couple of others who were equal in their influence and use of their personal popularity to push it along. They'd have had several good possibilities to choose from if Adrian had chosen not to run in '79.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:13 am

I tend to agree with William, coulda easily collapsed without Adrian. But let me repeat the bottom line as I have before when episodically someone amongst us reminds us of this debacle. The Great Harold Bloom said in the American Religion 93 "The Tragedy of the Southern Baptist Convention is the result of purely political operations masquerading as religious conviction"......Bloom said it, I Believe it; and that Settles it!!!! Back atchu Adrian. Rogers son David is a better person than his Dad was.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:44 am

Sandy wrote:
William Thornton wrote:Ron hale, author of the piece, did a workmanlike job. The title is overwrought but clearly Adrian was the leading public spokesman for the CR. I doubt it would have happened without him.


Do I detect a bit of Mid-America Seminary bias there? I'd agree that Adrian Rogers was a key public figure as well as behind-the-scenes active in pushing the conservative resurgence forward, but it seems a little overstated to say that it wouldn't have happened without him. Had it depended solely on Patterson and Pressler, I'd agree, it wouldn't have happened and Rogers was the first megapastor they settled on to get it started and then, to buck it up after it appeared to be faltering a bit (though I don't think it was ever in any real danger) but there were a couple of others who were equal in their influence and use of their personal popularity to push it along. They'd have had several good possibilities to choose from if Adrian had chosen not to run in '79.


Always fun to speculate. Adrian was far beyond the others in personal appeal and influence which is partly why he was always the last and keynote PC speaker. None of the other megapastors- Smith, vines, chapman,,olliff, even Stanley had his stature. Maybe the CR would have happened in time but I doubt the string of unbroken election wins would have happened.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:47 am

And the mods had no one close to his stature. Their strength was in back rooms, not pulpits. When they finally thrust poor old Winfred Moore forward he didn't click. Vestal was too little too late. The Shermans and chafin were net negatives. The old lions like McCall were irrelevant.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:41 am

One of the things that I continue to see is the unraveling of the CR at the local church level. I have been watching the promotion of the LMCO in the newsletters and on websites of SBC churches this year. There has hardly been a whimper about missions, a missionary story, or a word about why the SBC needs support. Most have been focused solely on what is happening in their churches. I have to ask myself, "Has the denomination become irrelevant to many of its larger churches?" What do you think?
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby Haruo » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:05 am

Dave Roberts wrote:One of the things that I continue to see is the unraveling of the CR at the local church level. I have been watching the promotion of the LMCO in the newsletters and on websites of SBC churches this year. There has hardly been a whimper about missions, a missionary story, or a word about why the SBC needs support. Most have been focused solely on what is happening in their churches. I have to ask myself, "Has the denomination become irrelevant to many of its larger churches?" What do you think?

It certainly may be perceived that way by the churches, and depending on where they are and whom they're trying to reach, it may be true, and in some respects may be a net negative. Certainly the word "Baptist" (even without the Southern) can toss a few thumbtacks on the road to evangelism.

There's a church plant in the Fremont neighborhood, that met Sunday evenings at Fremont Baptist for five or six years. It's called The Hallows. You would never know it was SBC without diligent research or confrontational interviewing techniques. I don't think you could pay them enough to get them to take up an overt fundraising appeal for CP.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby Sandy » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:28 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:One of the things that I continue to see is the unraveling of the CR at the local church level. I have been watching the promotion of the LMCO in the newsletters and on websites of SBC churches this year. There has hardly been a whimper about missions, a missionary story, or a word about why the SBC needs support. Most have been focused solely on what is happening in their churches. I have to ask myself, "Has the denomination become irrelevant to many of its larger churches?" What do you think?


It does seem to be unraveling. The "architects" overstepped their bounds big time, and while few people inside that circle would ever utter a critical word about the abuses, the personal kingdom building and self promotion that beat a pathway toward personal popularity and away from missions and the gospel, the displeasure has started showing up in convention gatherings at both the state and national level. You've had a couple of SBC presidents over the past five or six years not really connected to the personalities of the "resurgence" as it currently exists, including the current one. Part of that is due to the simple fact that many of the front line resurgence leaders are either dead or so advanced in aging as to not have the energy to keep moving forward. They've looked around and realized that the "younger" group, now mostly the 40 and 50 somethings, isn't following. Leaders like David Platt are demonstrating that the sugar plum, top dollar denominational posts aren't their ultimate goal. And the entrenched bureaucracy that still dominates the trustee boards will systematically select executive leadership that represents their own perspective, bypassing quality and enthusiasm in favor of personal loyalty, which will further disconnect the denomination from the people in the pew.

The "conservative resurgence" moved the SBC in a particular doctrinal direction from a Biblical, theological perspective, slightly to the right of most of Evangelical Christianity in America. But it hasn't reached in and brought the younger generation along. If you want some great insights as to what the younger generation is thinking and doing, read Ben Cole's "Baptist Blogger" and you'll have it.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:29 pm

Stephen, start another topic somewhere else on Helms, either that or link one that has some recognizable connection to Rogers. You are wasting your time. Put this stuff on your personal blog.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:33 pm

Dave, Annie Armstrong had a record year last year. Lottie last year was the second highest ever. There's little indication that either of these are unraveling in spite of your anecdotal evidence, though IMB has had to retrench after overextension and poor fiscal management. The general trends work against the large centralized mission sending entities, though. The CBF, lacking any meaningful legacy support depends on a few big gifts and "faith" mission efforts to do a small amount of overseas missions.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:49 pm

Has nothing to do with AR. Your absurd obsession with Birchers and helms is the route to endless deletions here. Move on.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby Sandy » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:00 pm

William Thornton wrote:Dave, Annie Armstrong had a record year last year. Lottie last year was the second highest ever. There's little indication that either of these are unraveling in spite of your anecdotal evidence, though IMB has had to retrench after overextension and poor fiscal management. The general trends work against the large centralized mission sending entities, though. The CBF, lacking any meaningful legacy support depends on a few big gifts and "faith" mission efforts to do a small amount of overseas missions.


I think what Dave was saying is that the CR is unraveling, not necessarily parts of the convention, though the membership and attendance decline are precipitous. The "traditionalists," who are more or less the old resurgence inner circle, got beaten on the convention floor pretty good this past June. But the connections to that group seem to be loosening up. They elected Fred Luter four years ago and he wasn't an inner circle guy, then there was Floyd, and then Gaines, but now JD Grear, who is not an insider either. And I'd be willing to bet most of his committee appointments will be drawn from a whole different constituency than the current crop.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:04 pm

I hope Greear's appointments are not the same old insiders and cronies.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:19 am

And a happy new year to you, stephen.

You're going to need to come up with something other than the same lame words and people. All you do is troll for responses with these things. We've all heard it, discussed it, and sometimes dismissed them years ago. Try some new thing a don't bait me by putting my name in the title.

No one cares what you put on so-and-so's FB page or any recycled material from your BFF Worthen Tell us the news from CollInsville, the liberry, the church where your mother was baptized. Find a link that is fresh and new and actually make a point using it.

Bama's in for a tough game but I wouldn't bet against them.
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New Collinsville and Takeover News all the Time

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:06 am

Latest on Collinsville is an easily googled Piece for Absolutely Alabama, Graves Hardware.

Martha talks and her husband opens the cash register. Thomas played for both the Bear and Bobby Bowden.

Martha makes the trains run on time, in the town and Collinsville Baptist church. Their son brad is in the video and his wife. Their daughter, Brooklyn, an 8th grader was number 111 in the state finals of distance runners this year.

I will have a blog soon on a UNC Press published book by Furman grad, Vandy PHD. All kinds of nuances and insights implications of the Adrian Cabal. Author Quiros made a presentation at Furman fall of 2017 a third of which was devoted to Yates Frady's son, Marshall.

I'm still lookin at Zebs, hopin. If I show, I will not be packin. You come however you feel safest, cause if the takeover comes up inthe conversation, Jesus is on my side. I spoke to him this morning.
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Re: Adrian Rogers

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:21 pm

Now you're talkin, bro.
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