About a woman being SBC presdent

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Re: About a woman being SBC presdent

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:31 pm

Jim wrote:This obsession with calling women as pastors, especially in CBF circles and especially as lead-pastors or senior-pastors, approaches ludicrousness and is demeaning to women. The SBC is constantly ridiculed over this but more than half of all SBC individual members are women who seem to be okay with the current protocol. Folks vote with their feet but these women (certainly not slavishly) stick with the SBC. This is not likely to change. This is not a matter of intellect, spirituality or most anything else. On a nit-picky note and as a personal observation, men's voices are eminently better collectively than women's for preaching. Dress-code is another area for thought regarding both sexes. Perhaps as generations morph into next-generations, this might change. This is doubtful but a look at churches/denominations now making homosexuality perfectly normal is suggestive of change for better or worse, depending on one's outlook.


Jim says "men's voices are eminently better collectively than women's for preaching".

Ed: Nothing that an adequate sound system can't take care of.
In fact am acquainted with a number of women who project quite well with or with out a sound system.

Dress Code? Jim have you watched some of the many young guys in jeans and T-shirts on TV?
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Re: About a woman being SBC presdent

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:50 pm

Albs are nice and unisex.
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Re: About a woman being SBC presdent

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:03 pm

JE Pettibone wrote: .Ed: No authority? Yet some local associations and state conventions have disfellowshiped churches that have called women as Pastors and others that have ordained women.


Yes, some associations and state conventions have disfellowshipped churches that called female pastors. I'm not aware that the SBC ever has. But since membership in those organizations is by voluntary cooperation, it is the church's decision as to whether ordaining women, or calling them as a pastor, is more important than their membership in the organization, that's up to them. But if the church decides to call a female pastor, the association, state convention, or SBC cannot stop them from doing so. So they have no authority.

JE PEttibone wrote:By the way is ther any formal rule that the President of the SBC has to be a Pastor?


Nope. That's been the trend, but it isn't required.

JE PEtibone wrote:And when you say "A few, mostly their core, spend a lot of time handing out certificates" what are you saying?


CBF's organizational leadership has given a lot of support to the idea of calling female pastors, and has pushed for churches to do this. Their schools are handing out a lot of degrees to female students, and some of the churches that have severed ties with the SBC and are unique in their CBF support are ordaining a lot of women to the ministry. But for the most part, there aren't really that many CBF congregations that have called female pastors, and over time, it doesn't seem like there is any real trend developing in doing so. I was a member of one of CBF's uniquely aligned, most supportive congregations for a decade, during a pastor transition, and while the congregation had, over the years, ordained a number of women to the ministry, there was really no serious consideration given to a woman during the search. It appears that if you are an ordained female member of a CBF church, your best bet for vocational ministry is with the Lutherans, Episcopalians or Methodists.

JE Pettibone wrote: Moving out of the denominational circles Just like yourself, right?


I have not moved out of "denominational" circles just yet. I did move out of the Baptist denominational circles, but both churches I've belonged to since are "denominational" by definition. Now that I'm in Chicago, that could very well change.
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Re: About a woman being SBC presdent

Postby Sandy » Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:59 pm

Jim wrote:This obsession with calling women as pastors, especially in CBF circles and especially as lead-pastors or senior-pastors, approaches ludicrousness and is demeaning to women.


Sit down and grab your hat on this one. I agree with Jim. I believe ministry is a calling from God, and that there is spiritual leadership involved in the process that includes taking a look at the possibilities, evaluating your spiritual gifts, interests, abilities, and talents, and also involves prayer and discernment because I do believe that the movement of God's spirit can be sensed and discerned. And while I don't believe that there is an arbitrary scriptural provision excluding women from the pastorate, or from preaching and teaching, I don't think that getting into a position of vocational ministry is ever the result of pushing your way in to make a point, or to prove that you can do it, or because that's your chosen career field.

Is it demeaning to women? Ask one. My wife and I know several young ladies who invested thousands of dollars in a seminary education, and got the leadership of a church to endorse their ministry calling by ordaining them. The last ordination of one of those friends of ours was thirteen years ago. As of now, none of them have been called to serve in a vocational ministry capacity that required them to be ordained. They all expected to be called as pastors, but I think they've all been in circumstances now where they've seen that they might not have been gifted and equipped to be. I had the privilege of working with one of them in a Christian school setting where she was absolutely wonderful with middle school kids, and where being a teacher put her in position to do a lot of "pastoral" ministry with parents in particular. I think it is demeaning when an ambition which may have been encouraged by means other than the Holy Spirit creates a situation in which a promise or dream never materializes because realistically, the work that the church may have for that person isn's being the pastor.

Jim wrote: The SBC is constantly ridiculed over this but more than half of all SBC individual members are women who seem to be okay with the current protocol.


If you want to venture out to discover what percentage of the volunteer workers and leadership across the SBC is female, go ahead. My guess is that over 75% of a church's volunteer leadership are women. The last figure I remember seeing from the statistical data that comes from Lifeway is that there are somewhere around 12,000 women employed as full time ministry staff of an SBC congregation, and a higher figure than that, I can't remember, as part-time ministry staff. I don't know if any comparisons have been done, but I would guess that by sheer number, the SBC has more female vocational ministry staff among its churches than any other denomination does.

Jim wrote: .On a nit-picky note and as a personal observation, men's voices are eminently better collectively than women's for preaching. Dress-code is another area for thought regarding both sexes. Perhaps as generations morph into next-generations, this might change.


Now I'll disagree. A loud male voice with a Southern accent and a sermon full of colloquialism is like nails running down a chalkboard. Dress code is a futile argument. The style now is jeans, ankle socks and a button down tail shirt with the tails left out.
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Re: About a woman being SBC presdent

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:57 pm

This question of women in ministry is one that I have to offer a different perspective. First, my home church had a woman on staff in Christian education who was an excellent preacher and filled the pulpit for our pastor when I was around 10 year old. (I'll be 72 next week). This lady went on to teach preaching at Princeton. Second, as a pastor, I had my first ordained woman on the church staff in 1987 in youth and education. She had been ordained by her previous church, and she served us well. Third, when I am not serving as an interim pastor or doing pulpit supply, I attend a congregation with a woman pastor who has now been a pastor for more than a decade. She does a fine job as a preacher, challenges me to think, and I have never once questioned that God called her to do exactly what she is doing. Fourth, it was my privilege in 1997 to preach the ordination sermon for a friend I had known since the preschool departments in our home church. She was already a university graduate, had traveled the world as a military wife, was a university graduate with a successful practice as a substance abuse counselor, and was a grandmother by the time of her ordination. As we talked, she acknowledged having felt the same nudges toward ministry that had drawn me to feel called. She returned to seminary, served as the senior adult ministry in a church, and later accepted the pastorate of a small country church. Her preaching would put most of us men to shame. Fifth, I participated in the ordination of another female staff member around 2006. She impressed the ordination council of how much she felt called to ministry. In her current staff position, while there is an older man who serves as the bivocational preacher, she serves as the one who ministers to most of the needs in that congregation, provides the spiritual leadership, and does most of the funerals. I served an interim for aa church that called a female senior pastor (the largest church in Virginia to have called a woman with the church having a total membership of over 1,100). Then I served an interim in another church which had just been served by a woman as pastor for the previous thirteen years. I do not have statistics on the number of women serving, but It appears there are far more than Sandy has been aware of.
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Re: About a woman being SBC presdent

Postby Haruo » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:16 pm

What about the dress code delivered once and for all to saints like it says in Jude?
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