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Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:38 pm
by Sandy
https://swbts.edu/news/releases/stateme ... -seminary/

In what I would consider a stunning reversal of the outcome of the May 22-23 board meeting, the executive board of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary met today and terminated its relationship with Dr. Paige Patterson. He will not be President Emeritus, will not receive a salary, and will not be living on campus. It is a personnel matter, so I would not expect to hear further details regarding the specific incidents that caused it. Apparently, it relates to the incident at Southeastern which occurred prior to his going to Southwestern.

Since this appears to be a development today, there is no word on whether or not he is still scheduled to deliver the convention sermon at the SBC.

Molly Marshall on selective inerrancy

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:40 pm
by Stephen Fox

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:53 pm
by Haruo
Wow. Yay.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:06 am
by William Thornton
I agree with Sandy that this is a stunning development. SWBTS trustees were facing years of difficulty, likely including more declining student numbers, were PP kept on campus and on payroll.

Now, what to do with all that stained glass shrine stuff?

Move "Stained" glass to Monroe NC

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:57 am
by Stephen Fox
To the Jesse Helms Library where that little sewing circle of the margins of the John Birch Society and White Citizens Council can delight in each other's company for eternity: Pressler, Patterson,Helms!!!!!!!

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:32 am
by Tim Bonney
William Thornton wrote:I agree with Sandy that this is a stunning development. SWBTS trustees were facing years of difficulty, likely including more declining student numbers, were PP kept on campus and on payroll.

Now, what to do with all that stained glass shrine stuff?


I would pretty much always consider it a mistake to make a stained glass window with the image of someone still alive. That kind of long lasting honor is best saved till after they are no longer able to fall off the pedestal. Hind sight is always 20/20.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:14 pm
by James
I read a summary of these latest developments this morning. None of the other web news sites which I frequent had the story. One of the statements from this morning concerned some files missing from SEBTS concerning the rape incident. These files legally belong to SE, but, allegedly, PP took these files with him to SW. The president of SE wants the files back.

At least PP will no longer have a venue for destroying the lives of young women in ministry.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:21 pm
by Tim Bonney
The board was smart to go ahead and just fire him. The golden parachute they offered him to start with looked like a reward rather than a punishment.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:15 pm
by Sandy

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:32 pm
by Haruo
Sandy wrote:https://swbts.edu/news/releases/statement-kevin-ueckert-chairman-board-trustees/


The next to last paragraph destroyed any claim to repentance on the Board's, or at least Ueckert's (sp?), part. If they were being so ethically driven and biblically forthright as all that, then what on Earth (or in Heaven above) were they doing a week ago when they voted him his cushy non-severance package??!!

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:09 am
by William Thornton
Haruo wrote:
Sandy wrote:https://swbts.edu/news/releases/statement-kevin-ueckert-chairman-board-trustees/


The next to last paragraph destroyed any claim to repentance on the Board's, or at least Ueckert's (sp?), part. If they were being so ethically driven and biblically forthright as all that, then what on Earth (or in Heaven above) were they doing a week ago when they voted him his cushy non-severance package??!!


The entire trustee board is large, forty composed of 27 clergy, 13 laypeople. There are two women on the board. The first decision was by the entire group and I understand that it was highly divided. The second decision was by a 12-member executive committe, all men. Information dribbled out between the board meeting and the executive committee meeting. Some of it was explosive, deal-breaker stuff.

We've got accusations of theft of records, unethical accessing of student records, more cases of pressuring rape victims to forgive and forget...there will be more.

No SBCer can feel much pride in the kpast or the process but the result is what it should be, so far.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:13 am
by Tim Bonney
I'm not making any excuses for the Board's actions. But sometimes boards are tempted to give nice severance packages to avoid a lawsuit for wrongful termination. Usually such a package comes with a signed agreement that you will take no legal action against the institution for your departure. I don't know that any of that happened. But, when they first proposed the big severance agreement I wondered what was in it for the seminary.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:19 am
by Rvaughn
Here is a link to the blog referenced by Ueckert in his statement:
https://sbcissues.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/the-untold-truth-facts-surrounding-paige-patterson-and-his-removal-from-swbts-by-sharayah-colter/
the wife of Dr. Patterson’s Chief of Staff published a blog and attached these documents without the permission of the students referenced in the documents or appropriate leadership from SEBTS or SWBTS

Tim Bonney wrote:I'm not making any excuses for the Board's actions. But sometimes boards are tempted to give nice severance packages to avoid a lawsuit for wrongful termination. Usually such a package comes with a signed agreement that you will take no legal action against the institution for your departure. I don't know that any of that happened. But, when they first proposed the big severance agreement I wondered what was in it for the seminary.
Bingo! Doesn't make it right, but this board hasn't done something that most boards don't do. Our local area school boards are consistently offering grand severance packages to Superintendents they want to be rid of! I pointed out a while back that the SWBTS trustee board at the time also offered a "golden parachute" to Russell Dilday before they locked him out. Difference between him and Patterson (mainly, though Patterson's parachute was a little "more golden") was that Dilday wouldn't accept it.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:21 pm
by Sandy
The information provided indirectly by Patterson's former chief of staff's wife doesn't square up with what was apparently found and read by the trustees from the records which were taken from SEBTS and moved to Ft Worth. The executive committee had the actual files, Ms. Coulter is providing hearsay.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:54 pm
by William Thornton
Sandy wrote:The information provided indirectly by Patterson's former chief of staff's wife doesn't square up with what was apparently found and read by the trustees from the records which were taken from SEBTS and moved to Ft Worth. The executive committee had the actual files, Ms. Coulter is providing hearsay.


Not sure I understand you, Sandy. The lady had the actual documents. There are issues with her actions here. Gonna be a mess for some time on this aspect alone, I'm afraid.

But do any of my mod friends here miss the irony of PP being locked out? Russell Dilday?

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:06 pm
by Dave Roberts
I never like PP or the other PP, but I don't rejoice in this mess because it just becomes one more blot on the cause of Christ and one more impediment. like the Dilday headlines were. Everything that hurts my brothers and sisters also hurts me because all who claim a relationship with Christ are family members and every blot is on our family name of Christian.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:40 pm
by Haruo
So is he still speaking in the Convention?
The WAPO wrote:He had been scheduled to deliver a key sermon to thousands of people at the Southern Baptist Convention’s annual meeting in Texas later this month, although it is unclear whether he will still speak.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:31 pm
by Sandy
William Thornton wrote:
Sandy wrote:The information provided indirectly by Patterson's former chief of staff's wife doesn't square up with what was apparently found and read by the trustees from the records which were taken from SEBTS and moved to Ft Worth. The executive committee had the actual files, Ms. Coulter is providing hearsay.


Not sure I understand you, Sandy. The lady had the actual documents. There are issues with her actions here. Gonna be a mess for some time on this aspect alone, I'm afraid.

But do any of my mod friends here miss the irony of PP being locked out? Russell Dilday?


It doesn't appear her blog, statement, or the documents she provided had any bearing on the trustee's decision. How did she come into possession of documents supposedly belonging to Southeastern seminary, that were confidential?

But the remarkable part of this is the trustee decision. The evidence must be pretty stark if a hand-picked trustee board was willing to reverse a golden parachute that resolved the immediate problem, after considering whatever it was.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:23 pm
by Rvaughn
Haruo wrote:So is he still speaking in the Convention?
According to SBC President Steve Gaines:
Some have called for me to stop Dr. Patterson from preaching the Convention Sermon in Dallas. The SBC president does not have the authority to make that decision. Neither does the SBC Committee on Order of Business. It was the messengers of the 2017 SBC meeting that selected Dr. Patterson to preach the 2018 Convention Sermon. There are only two scenarios in which Dr. Patterson will not preach the Convention Sermon: 1) the messengers of the SBC vote at the annual meeting in Dallas for him not to do so, or 2) Dr. Patterson personally withdraws from that responsibility.
[Bold emphasis mine]
http://www.bpnews.net/50882/gaines-addresses-patterson-racial-diversity-sbc

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:17 pm
by Sandy
That statement by Gaines was made on May 11. Technically, the selection of the preacher of the annual sermon is "elected" by the convention, but it is done in a single motion made by the order of business committee, and it is pretty routine. They make a motion that contains the name of one person already enlisted to preach the annual sermon, and one person as an alternate, and its a routine voice vote with a predictable turnout. If he doesn't decline by convention time, I wonder how that motion will be made, and by whom?

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:26 pm
by William Thornton
By motion and vote when the order of business is presented for adoption at the beginning of the convention. Must be a majority of the messengers registered, not just of those present and voting.

Could be difficult but who knows?

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:54 pm
by Sandy
I'm sure there are those who are staying on top of this, and laying plans for ensuring he doesn't get to the podium during the convention. Among the Southern Baptists I know who are convention-bound, the vote to move to the alternate preacher would be unanimous. Looking at a couple of the blogs, and the comments, I'd say its probably 80-20 in favor of not allowing Patterson to do it. Of course, the messenger pool is not always something you can put your finger on. Texas conventions, and particularly Dallas conventions, can be unpredictable.

Some clarification here regarding the letters produced by Ms. Coulter, which, according to the information, appear to have been altered. Noting also that the board chair indicates the letters don't really provide any evidence to change anything.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act ... ae97abf4bb

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:26 am
by Rvaughn
Related information from SWBTS:
A Statement from the Administration of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary [on the Internal Investigation of Paige Patterson Documents]
As public conversation has continued, correspondence regarding the matter has surfaced which were not in any files possessed by SEBTS. Such correspondence should be held in student files under protection of federal privacy laws regarding education records. It is our express desire to acquire these documents as well as any others that should be held by SEBTS.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:37 am
by Tim Bonney
Wow, the messengers even vote on who the preacher is? You'd think something that routine would be delegated to an agenda sub committee or something. There is a point at which having a vote on everything is a hinderance to good decisions.

Re: Patterson Completely Out, Fired, at SWBTS

PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:24 am
by Rvaughn
Interesting comments on the open letter from concerned Southern Baptist women who affirm the Baptist Faith and Message 2000:
An open letter from women claiming to be Southern Baptists was written to the seminary's board of trustees expressing their objections to Patterson. Thousands of people have now signed their names to the letter – but an assistant professor of theology in women's studies at SWBTS has examined the signatures and noticed that not all are Southern Baptist women.

"People who are signing their name, they're signing their name to a document that's saying 'we women' – and you see men signing also signing their name," says Dr. Candi Finch.

According to Finch, some of the signatures are those of people from other denominations besides the SBC – and Finch said she saw fake names, even Patterson's wife. "When Mrs. Patterson's name showed up several days ago and I knew she had not signed it, I had asked them to remove her name and they were willing to do so." Mrs. Patterson's name has since been removed.
This is old news, but interesting to me nevertheless. I looked at the signatories probably two or three weeks ago, and Wade Burleson was on it -- who is neither a woman nor an affirmer of the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. I notice today his name is no longer there, so he may have asked to have it removed (and may have not added it himself anyway).