Patterson discussion

[Sandy]

http://sbcvoices.com/a-few-words-about- ... rson-saga/

Paige Patterson is giving the annual sermon at the SBC in June, and his selection created a firestorm of comment about remarks he made more than a decade ago which were controversial related to the submission of women being abused by their husbands.

I do not understand how it is that there is no one within this denomination who can step up and prevent it from embarassing itself and making itself look like a bunch of ignorant hicks.

[Rvaughn]

Here's a couple of others from that site:

[William Thornton]

[Dave Roberts]

Is there another job like Ken Hemphill's at the SBC Executive Committee. If so, transfer PP.

[William Thornton]

[JE Pettibone]

[Sandy]

[Haruo]

I keep reading that there are a lot of younger SBC pastors who think Patterson is even closer to the right hand of God than Trump is. But so far all the blog posts and position statements I'm seeing about this particular controversy (or is it two, the statements about abused women and the invitation to preach at the convention?) are anti-Patterson or extremely neutral. Is there an articulate writer in the actively pro-Patterson (and pro-abused-wives-should-stay-until-it's-time-to-go-to-the-hospital) camp?

[William Thornton]

[William Thornton]

[Rvaughn]

[Stephen Fox]

I am disappointed Jerry Vines has not gotten word to William Thornton, nor SBC Voices on Jonathan Merritt's piece in the Atlantic about Paige.

Most of you Know Jonathan's Dad James is recent president of the SBC.

I put the whole swamp in New Yorker Perspective at my blog with a link to the Atlantic Piece. Several folks at Furman have read my blog and find it "superb"

Looking to see what religion dispatches does with Paige.

I called FBC Gardendale, Gaines foremer haunt this morning and let them know about the Atlantic piece.

Rick Burgess needs to know too.

Get the full story on my blog and by all means link to SBC Voices.

[Sandy]

I've never seen William drop Jerry Vines' name here, and wasn't aware that he knew him personally. Have you been holding out on us, William?

Patterson was never really a unifying figure in the SBC, even among conservatives. He and Pressler came to the surface in response to years of frustration over denominational leadership being so tightly wound around an elitist, closed group of denominational bureaucrats, and used theological controversy that was always bubbling below the surface, and the natural distrust of many Baptists in the pew, to launch a movement that resonated with a majority of Southern Baptists. They were able to develop a strategy that was sustainable in terms of messenger support long enough to navigate through a system of trustee appointment that was purposefully designed around clannish exclusivity and for lack of a better way to describe it, Southern backwardness.

Patterson is, perhaps, the only true "Fundamentalist" in the leadership of the Conservative Resurgence. It wasn't so much his theology that was needed as it was his bullying and pushiness, and willingness to openly challenge opposition, go outside the accepted lines to gain support and get things to happen, and having his fingers in every pie. Pressler was a former Presbyterian, and a member of churches in Houston that are clearly conservative, but not fundamentalist in the way that Patterson is. He was only interested in the personal prominence and power necessary to orchestrate change. He might have been uncomfortable with some of the more liberal views coming out of Baylor, as he claimed, but if Baylor University was the culprit, why take over the SBC to change it, since Baylor isn't an SBC institution?

The way the SBC was structured, and still is for the most part, made their methods necessary to make changes. Patterson was always a lightning rod, always prone to open his mouth and insert both feet at times, and never unanimously popular among conservatives. When the boards had been turned, and the moderates realized they did not have the means or anywhere near the support to reverse anything, Patterson and Pressler should have backed away, instead of getting involved in the board rotation, and collecting spoils for their personal prominence. They've been given far more power and far more accolades than anything they did has deserved, and their continued presence, and the way some Southern Baptists follow them around with toilet paper and tissues, is an embarassment to the denomination. Noting that those who keep bringing these things up and who are part of the group Patterson accuses of being out to get him are also conservatives who were part of the resurgence movement says that their time to make speeches and get standing ovations was over long ago.

At an SBC meeting I attended about a decade ago, when Patterson got up to make his seminary report, which turned out to be a campaign speech against David Rogers who was running for FVP, a guy sitting next to me complained that when he was done, we'd have to stand. I said I wasn't going to, and after a glance that made me think I had horns and a tail, when the speech was over, the only people who stood were the handful of Southwestern students in the back of the room.

[William Thornton]

[William Thornton]

I've never met Jerry Vines. Don't know him personally. That's Fox baiting the rest of you. Looks like I'll have to go back to deleting his nonsense if he keeps this junk up.

[Sandy]

Here's your Patheos article, Stephen, so you don't have to find it. Its not by Molly Marshall or Marshall Frady, or Molly Worthen, but it's by Roger Olsen.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogereolso ... r-spouses/

And another, perhaps more progressive perspective.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/irreverin/ ... content=43

[Stephen Fox]

[Stephen Fox]

latest went up this afternoon May 22. Now SEBTS is in play, 2003 they year Paige matriculated from Jesse Helms back to Texas with the Hunt Bircher Brothers and Pressler the Texas Regular Sodomite

For yall on facebook Sarah Pulliam Bailey of Wheaton and Wash Post is active today including background information from yours truly

https://www.facebook.com/sarahpulliambailey

[Rvaughn]

Here's a link to the story that Sarah Pulliam Bailey has linked:

[Haruo]

Moseley sounds very bad.

But what I worry about most is the rapist's current situation. Is he still doing this sort of thing? Is he an active, ordained minister of the gospel?

[William Thornton]

This is appalling and fatal to PP in my view. Whereas I thought his apologies for earlier difficulties were sufficient to permit his continued service, including delivering the convention sermon in three weeks, this latest mess ends all that. A student reported a rape. She is appeared before several men and had to recount the details. She was pressured not to report to authorities and to forgive, and was placed on probation by the school. No word on consequences to the male student. The male student later (years) reached out to his victim and asked for forgiveness. She forgave him.

No way PP can be honored by preaching the convention sermon and likely getting a standing ovation. We wouldn't leave Dallas with a shred of credibility in the public eye.

Rabid PP supporters blame the victim, the messengers, the timing and some in the most unchristian manner. Disgusting.

[KeithE]

[Dave Roberts]

I heard on NPR just a few minutes ago that Patterson is out. The thing that struck me, if accurate was that SWBTS was described as a 1,200-student school. Didn't it once have 2,500 students (by FTE counts)? Patterson, in his advise to a raped young woman obviously broke the laws of Texas. Rape is a crime, period!

[Rvaughn]

[Dave Roberts]

I don't know about 2003, but current NC statutes do have a reporting responsibility for educational administrators who receive allegations of rape.

Patterson's forced retirement is strange--title, place to live, opportunity to have an office on the campus, and continuing salary and benefits. Things have certainly changed since Russell Dilday was locked out of his own office for displeasing the board. Is there a double standard of how to treat fellow Christians at SWBTS?