Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

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Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:11 am

As Doctrinal statement.

Jeff Lovingood of Cleveland Tenn is Trustee in charge of denominational relations

Likely chaos like Nelson Price brought to Shorter to Follow

Aaron Big Daddy Weaver Facebook comments on fire

Google Tn Baptist News and Reflector article

Here are your trustees

http://www.cn.edu/administration/board- ... f-trustees
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Randall Obrien came to CN in 2008

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:13 pm

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The ghost of Ralph Elliot in the CN Stew

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:46 pm

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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby William Thornton » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:13 pm

No one cares what you put on some FB wall. You raised a decent issue. Don't waste it by linking your extraneous junk located elsewhere.
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Dave Roberts » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:17 am

As a Carson-Newman alumnus, I am quite disappointed in this. By all appearances, the trustees seem to have done this without any consultation with faculty or administration. Again, adding a flawed statement to the incorporation and bylaws to the university seems a problem. Has the Tennessee Baptist Convention made this its own statement or insisted on the adoption of such documents?
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Sandy » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:27 pm

http://baptistandreflector.org/tbmb-rec ... on-newman/

The article is sketchy, but it looks like the conventions Partner Ministries Committee had received some concerns about the university and that the adoption of the BFM 2000, and implementation of policy related to it was a means of at least partial resolution of the issues.

I haven't read much about issues at Carson Newman. I know there was quite a battle over Belmont, eventually winding up in court, and that the financial value of the investment of the Tennessee Baptist Convention's investment in the university was the price they paid for ending their relationship with the convention, $50 million over a five year period, I believe. It looks like something may have raised that kind of concern about Carson-Newman, and the Partner Missions Committee of the convention met with the trustees to prevent something like that happening again.

My understanding of the way Baptist polity works when it comes to relating to institutions like colleges and universities depends on how the trustee board is set up. Carson Newman's board is elected by the Tennessee Baptist Convention. The convention relates to the trustees through its Partner Ministries Committee, and the trustees apparently decided that adopting the BFM 2000, and putting it in their policy, would be part of the resolution of the problems that have been addressed. The trustees employ and supervise the administration, and according to the article, the President has agreed to communicate their wishes to the faculty and staff, and ensure their compliance. That's how it works. Apparently the school's administration agreed to this.
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:08 am

This is great. I hope they have the teaching and administrative staff sign it in agreement or write caveat as to where and why.

There are plenty of liberal, social liberal, social colleges and universities to choose from. Having another conservative, Bible believing School won't hurt the left, unless they are some of those easily bruised snowflake type.
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Sandy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:32 am

I would disagree with requiring faculty and staff at any Baptist university or educational institution to sign the BFM 2000, for several reasons. One, the BFM is not a comprehensive doctrinal statement, it is a framework of essentials upon which denominational cooperation is based. It is intended to define the doctrinal parameters in which institutions relate to convention bodies, not to be a comprehensive statement of faith. In this case, the school's trustees have reported to the convention's Partner Ministries Committee that the school has adopted the BFM 2000 as one of several guidelines of this sort, and that the school's administration has agreed to ensure that it is implemented.

The school is an independent, autonomous institution under Baptist polity, and it already has a comprehensive statement of faith, and curriculum guides which cover every objective in every course it teaches. The administration is responsible for ensuring that there is agreement and unity between the school's statement of faith and its curriculum objectives, and since the faculty is largely responsible for developing the curriculum, and for utilizing it in classroom instruction, signing off on yet another doctrinal statement would be redundant and superfluous. If there are places in the curriculum that are not in agreement with the BFM 2000, then those adjustments will be made by the administration, changed in the curriculum objectives that professors are required to teach. There are as many ways to interpret the words in a general statement like the BFM as there are to interpret passages of scripture, signatures and caveats from professors are meaningless and ineffective.

"Conservative" and "Bible believing" are catch phrases that are used to describe personally defined beliefs, in other words, "you must believe it the way I believe it to be entitled to call yourself by those words."
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:18 am

Sandy wrote:I would disagree with requiring faculty and staff at any Baptist university or educational institution to sign the BFM 2000, for several reasons. One, the BFM is not a comprehensive doctrinal statement, it is a framework of essentials upon which denominational cooperation is based. It is intended to define the doctrinal parameters in which institutions relate to convention bodies, not to be a comprehensive statement of faith. In this case, the school's trustees have reported to the convention's Partner Ministries Committee that the school has adopted the BFM 2000 as one of several guidelines of this sort, and that the school's administration has agreed to ensure that it is implemented.

The school is an independent, autonomous institution under Baptist polity, and it already has a comprehensive statement of faith, and curriculum guides which cover every objective in every course it teaches. The administration is responsible for ensuring that there is agreement and unity between the school's statement of faith and its curriculum objectives, and since the faculty is largely responsible for developing the curriculum, and for utilizing it in classroom instruction, signing off on yet another doctrinal statement would be redundant and superfluous. If there are places in the curriculum that are not in agreement with the BFM 2000, then those adjustments will be made by the administration, changed in the curriculum objectives that professors are required to teach. There are as many ways to interpret the words in a general statement like the BFM as there are to interpret passages of scripture, signatures and caveats from professors are meaningless and ineffective.

"Conservative" and "Bible believing" are catch phrases that are used to describe personally defined beliefs, in other words, "you must believe it the way I believe it to be entitled to call yourself by those words."


The BFM 2K can be whatever the elected Trustees want it to be. You can have conflicting curriculum and simply teach it as conflicting to the schools statement of faith. The faculty works for the school, not the other way around. If the school makes a change in direction the faculty needs to get on board or move on.
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Sandy » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:04 pm

Jon Estes wrote:The BFM 2K can be whatever the elected Trustees want it to be. You can have conflicting curriculum and simply teach it as conflicting to the schools statement of faith. The faculty works for the school, not the other way around. If the school makes a change in direction the faculty needs to get on board or move on.


Not necessarily. Not very many of the state convention related colleges and universities have trustee boards which have the power for direct oversight of the school in any way except to write and monitor its policy. There was a similar case in Georgia, at Shorter University, in which the trustees were able to push the school in the direction they wanted it to go, because the state convention was the "owner" of the university in a legal sense, and in the way its relationship was identified within the state convention, different than "affiliated." So far, what I'm reading suggests that this is being approached in a way that requests the administration ensure that instruction is compatible and in compliance with the BFM 2000, and that this was something to which the administration had agreed. That makes me wonder if their relationship with the Tennessee Baptist Convention is similar to the one at Belmont, where the convention-elected trustees were prohibited from direct instruction or action toward the school employees, and where they had to work with an administration that had the authority or ability to refuse their request.
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Could be a delagyed Belmont Exit

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:27 pm

More like Belmont than Shorter College according to sources in the vicinity of Jefferson City. Jeff Loving Good of FBC Cleveland Tn hasn't responded. Haven't checked to see if my facebook comment is still up there. I expect he is in deep collusion with the Alt Right Resolutions Steve Gaines of Adrian Rogers Bellevue Baptists, but saner folks on CN board are playing the chess match so I guess will see. Will be interesting to see if Aaron Weaver's alarms of last Thursday were appropriate. Looks like nobody knows at this point.
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Wilie Tee and Dave Miller's SBC Voices

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:30 pm

Tell us Willie, Has Dave Miller gotten word yet and what's he sayin.

Two Molly Worthen is not Extraneous, She id Central, Kerygma

Third. Do you know Jeff Loving Good and do you and Jerry Vines think this is gonna play out like Belmont or Shorter?
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Sandy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Interesting. I went to seminary with Jeff Lovingood. Can't say I knew him well, and don't know him now. I think First Baptist Church of Cleveland is his home church.

Tennessee Baptist Convention Bylaws wrote:The relationship between the Convention and the affiliated boards and institutions is grounded in mutual trust for the purpose of common ministry. The affiliated institutions are autonomous nonprofit corporations, neither owned nor operated by the Convention. Governance of the institutions is vested in their respective boards of trustees or directors in all matters.


So a little information goes a long way here. It appears that Carson Newman's relationship with the Tennessee Baptist Convention is similar to that of Belmont, and Union. A little bit of reading led to the discovery that while the TBC does elect trustees of Carson Newman University, there is a covenant agreement in place that states the convention must elect only trustees recommended by the school. And the relationship of the school to state convention is different than that of the schools in Georgia. The trustees are adopting the BFM 2000, among other statements of faith and doctrinal guidelines, apparently as a gesture of good will toward the TBC. The convention doesn't have the power to require it. So I don't think you'll see professors having to sign their agreement of it. I'd say that the way this is described does look like a good-faith effort on the part of both the conventions Partner Ministry Committee and the school's trustees. If so, that would certainly be a much better way to handle a disagreement among believers than standing ground and severing relationships.
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Facebook

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:28 pm

Lee Saunders, Thank you. I posted your findings on CN Prez Randall Obrien facebook wall and will keep you posted.
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Dave Roberts » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:20 pm

I can see how trustees could enforce the BFM2K on the Religion Department, but I really wonder about how such a document has much relationship to a number of departments like Business Accounting, Nursing, Pre-Med, ROTC, English, Foreign Languages, Computer Science, Chemistry, Physics, History and Political Science, and a number of others. In a college like Carson-Newman, many of the faculty members in those departments are not Baptists while many others are. I don't recall when I was there that being a Baptist was required anywhere but in the Religion Department.
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Re: Carson Newman trustees adopt BFM 2000

Postby Sandy » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:39 pm

http://www.cn.edu/about-c-n/vision-miss ... statements

I don't really see what the BFM 2000 would add to what the university has already stated. If they're following this mission and purpose, and statement of faith, the BFM 2000 wouldn't change a thing, that I can see.
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State Convention

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:17 pm

What is the latest.

Ive been whispering in the ear of CN trustee SBC liaison Jeff Loving good of FBC Cleveland Tn but I'm not sure he is listening.

I tried to get word to him about the religion dispatches . org piece me too with the picture of Steve Gaines and Ronnie Floyd.
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Marney ashamed of Tn Baps today

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:26 pm

https://baptistnews.com/article/baptist ... gttLUqnGUl

So much for Steve Gaines not embracing the Alt Right!!!

I'm calling Jeff Lovingood of FBC Cleveland the CN Trustee in charge of denominational relations
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Re: Marney ashamed of Tn Baps today

Postby Sandy » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:40 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:https://baptistnews.com/article/baptist-convention-tennessee-boots-church-calling-woman-pastor/#.WgttLUqnGUl

So much for Steve Gaines not embracing the Alt Right!!!

I'm calling Jeff Lovingood of FBC Cleveland the CN Trustee in charge of denominational relations


Just pointing out that the article has nothing whatsoever to do with Steve Gaines and the alt right. Nor does it have anything to do with Jeff Lovingood of FBC Cleveland. Neither are mentioned in it.

Obviously there are connections between the First Baptist Church of Jefferson City, and Carson-Newman University, though Stephen, you know that these are informal and Baptist in nature.

I did notice that the new pastor is a graduate of Beeson Divinity School of Samford University.
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And Rick Burgess is a JSU grad

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:32 pm

And was keynote speaker to the Bama SBC Tuesday night.

Sandy Lee Saunders you are too bright not to concede SBC is now just one big mush pit.

Call Jeff Loving good and give us a report. He aint no Carlyle Marney.

You know the history of Beeson Dean. Rumor is he is a member of Briarwood (Timothy George) PCA in Bham.

Rick Burgess was hilarious this morning on his syndicated radio show about Roy Moore. Says they are gonna put a statue up at Gadsden Mall--see Roy at the Mall, New Yorker. His Babbdissed Sidekick Big Bill Bubba Bussey said the succession for Bama is Sessions, Strange, Saban.

I bet Steve Gaines thought that was funny as Hades. I laughed too.
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