Group protests SBC 2017

Discuss current news and trends taking place in the Southern Baptist Convention.

Moderator: William Thornton

Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Jun 06, 2017 1:19 pm

http://sbcvoices.com/faith-in-america-to-protest-sbc17/
"...Faith in America, a pro-LGBT advocacy group, plans to protest the 2017 annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention being held next week in Phoenix, AZ."
http://www.bpnews.net/48981/prolgbt-group-plans-protest-at-sbc-2017
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:25 pm

Rvaughn wrote:http://sbcvoices.com/faith-in-america-to-protest-sbc17/
"...Faith in America, a pro-LGBT advocacy group, plans to protest the 2017 annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention being held next week in Phoenix, AZ."
http://www.bpnews.net/48981/prolgbt-group-plans-protest-at-sbc-2017


While I'm an ally of the LGBTQ+ community, that is just a waste of time. The SBC doesn't even recognize fully the gifts of women. Get them into the 20th century before you try to get them into the 21st. :wink:
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:08 pm

I'm more of a 19th-century man myself, a little more primitive than the Southerns. But I agree with you that it is a waste of time.

In fact, I think a lot of protesting that is done is a waste of time, and perhaps does more toward making protesters feel better about themselves than doing anything that changes something.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:34 pm

Rvaughn wrote:I'm more of a 19th-century man myself, a little more primitive than the Southerns. But I agree with you that it is a waste of time.

In fact, I think a lot of protesting that is done is a waste of time, and perhaps does more toward making protesters feel better about themselves than doing anything that changes something.


I have mixed feelings about protests at denominational venues also. I tend to agree with you that it generally doesn't do much in the way of convincing people. Other kinds of actions that work to change policies are more effective.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby JE Pettibone » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:30 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:
Rvaughn wrote:I'm more of a 19th-century man myself, a little more primitive than the Southerns. But I agree with you that it is a waste of time.

In fact, I think a lot of protesting that is done is a waste of time, and perhaps does more toward making protesters feel better about themselves than doing anything that changes something.


I have mixed feelings about protests at denominational venues also. I tend to agree with you that it generally doesn't do much in the way of convincing people. Other kinds of actions that work to change policies are more effective.


Ed: Hey guys, it depends on the organizational quality of the protest, look at the Civil Rights movement and the VIet Nam War protest. Ofcourse both of you are too young for first hand experience with either. :D
JE Pettibone
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:48 am

JE Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Hey guys, it depends on the organizational quality of the protest, look at the Civil Rights movement and the VIet Nam War protest. Ofcourse both of you are too young for first hand experience with either. :D


Ed, you have more experience than I do with that era. But what I used to see at ABC/USA meetings when the AWAB would stage protests is that they would borrow the feel of the Vietnam era protests and I could hear older folks muttering "bunch of hippies protesting again." (I'm exaggerating a little. But that is the response I heard.)

So I think moderates are often turned off by liberal protesters if they are riding the fence and it pushes them the other direction.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Sandy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:39 pm

Protesting in Phoenix, Arizona in June, huh? That'll take some commitment.

I was at the SBC meeting in Atlanta when then-President George H.W. Bush spoke on the last day. We took a cab from the hotel because the parking garages around the convention center jacked up the rates for the convention, so we had to walk through a whole assortment of protesters mostly there because of the President's presence, and because CNN's headquarters was right across the plaza. They were still there when we came out. I doubt that they had any effect on changing the minds of any of the messengers, but I think their purpose is to be somewhere that will get attention, and of course, all the press that was there to cover the President also covered the protests. Maybe 110 degree heat will thin the ranks of both protesters and press in Phoenix.

There are times when protests have some success. Over the course of this past winter and spring, the protesters who showed up at congressional town hall meetings held by Republicans succeeded in derailing the first repeal and replace proposal, and succeeded in getting at least 23 Republicans to vote no on the second bill. I went to one of those in my district, where the Republican congressman's staff was trying to screen the people going inside to try and prevent those against repealing the ACA from getting inside. Didn't work. He voted against both Republican proposals.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8193
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:26 pm

When I see protests as having some effect is when you are at a tipping point. Unless I really really don't understand the SBC any longer, I can't believe the convention is anywhere near being interested in being pro-LGBTQ.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:51 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Hey guys, it depends on the organizational quality of the protest, look at the Civil Rights movement and the Viet Nam War protest. Of course both of you are too young for first hand experience with either.
Old enough to remember, young enough to have not been involved -- except in listening to the protest music of the war, such as:
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We’re finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Sandy » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:53 pm

I had a 45 RPM record of that Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young recording of Ohio. I think I was probably in 7th or 8th grade back then. I was a sophomore in high school when the Vietnam war came to an end, and turned 18 six days after the draft expired.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8193
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Sandy wrote:I had a 45 RPM record of that Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young recording of Ohio. I think I was probably in 7th or 8th grade back then. I was a sophomore in high school when the Vietnam war came to an end, and turned 18 six days after the draft expired.


I was four years old during the 1968 war protests. So I don't remember anything about it outside of history books.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Rvaughn » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:45 pm

Sandy wrote:I had a 45 RPM record of that Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young recording of Ohio. I think I was probably in 7th or 8th grade back then. I was a sophomore in high school when the Vietnam war came to an end, and turned 18 six days after the draft expired.
I was in much the same time frame as you. Draft ended before I was eligible. Wikipedia says "Ohio" was written in May 1970, so I think I was finishing the 7th grade at the time. I was still listening to CSN even before they were "and Young" but I had an older brother who was listening to and buying this stuff.

Just went to YouTube and listened to "Ohio" and Stephen Stills' "For What Its Worth."
User avatar
Rvaughn
 
Posts: 629
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:54 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby JE Pettibone » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:43 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:
Ed: Hey guys, it depends on the organizational quality of the protest, look at the Civil Rights movement and the VIet Nam War protest. Ofcourse both of you are too young for first hand experience with either. :D


Ed, you have more experience than I do with that era. But what I used to see at ABC/USA meetings when the AWAB would stage protests is that they would borrow the feel of the Vietnam era protests and I could hear older folks muttering "bunch of hippies protesting again." (I'm exaggerating a little. But that is the response I heard.)

So I think moderates are often turned off by liberal protesters if they are riding the fence and it pushes them the other direction.


Ed: Which ABWA Tim, the American Business Womens Association or the Association of Black Women Attorneys? :wink: OH No, I Guess you mean that group of 15 or 20 folk who Martched into the first ABC Biennial to be held in the south, @ Richmond Singing a hymn Loudly as Dr. Medley was on the platform at the Microphone making introductions, In our section many people said clearly "Please sit down and be quiet,cant you see or heat the program has started?" But then perhaps you are talking about another group because you did say the folk you referenced "would borrow the feel of the Vietnam era protests" I never encountered Vietnam era protesters singing hymns. Some of the same folk I saw in Richmond where in Denver but they did stay out side the first entrance to the Auditorium to sing and came quietly when the program started. You may recall that you and I both planned to speak
to a proposed statement of concern regarding the place of homosexuality in the ABC/USA but you where coming down the aisle to register when they announced the registration was closed. I had my 4 minutes, don't that it made any difference. I was surprised to have the Pastor of a Welcoming and Affirming church in Cincinnati approached me and complement my presentation. We agreed that their is a need for reasoned discourse on the subject.
You may recall that You, Flick and I had lunch at a local establishment a few blocks from the Mint.
JE Pettibone
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Haruo » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:16 pm

We're set to have two almost diametrically opposed marches in Downtown Seattle tomorrow: one "anti-Sharia" and the other "pro-Muslim".
Story.
Haruo (呂須•春男) = ᎭᎷᎣ = Leland Bryant Ross
Repeal the language taxLearn and use Esperanto
Fremont Baptist ChurchMy hymnblog
User avatar
Haruo
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11702
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:21 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:19 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Which ABWA Tim, the American Business Womens Association or the Association of Black Women Attorneys? :wink: OH No, I Guess you mean that group of 15 or 20 folk who Martched into the first ABC Biennial to be held in the south, @ Richmond


Yes, I reversed some letters. I'll confess that after seven years in UMC land I'm starting to forget what ABC folks call things. In the UMC world it is called the "Reconciling Ministries Network" or RMN.

I do remember not getting to the mic. And I remember the three of us having lunch. After that, my recollections of the Richmond Biennial are pretty fuzzy.

Right now I'm in Des Moines at the Iowa Annual Conference UMC.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby JE Pettibone » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:36 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Which ABWA Tim, the American Business Womens Association or the Association of Black Women Attorneys? :wink: OH No, I Guess you mean that group of 15 or 20 folk who Martched into the first ABC Biennial to be held in the south, @ Richmond


Yes, I reversed some letters. I'll confess that after seven years in UMC land I'm starting to forget what ABC folks call things. In the UMC world it is called the "Reconciling Ministries Network" or RMN.

I do remember not getting to the mic. And I remember the three of us having lunch. After that, my recollections of the Richmond Biennial are pretty fuzzy.

Right now I'm in Des Moines at the Iowa Annual Conference UMC.


Ed: Uh Tim, the Biennial where You Flick and I had lunch together was Denver as was the my only four minutes addressing assembled ABC delegates. 2 years after Richmond where about the only person other than Trudy that I had prior acquaintance with was CBF Coordinator Danial Vestal who had come up from Greensboro CBF Assembly to deliver fraternal greetings to the ABC. Like this year Trudy and I attended both meetings of the 2 organizations. Richmond was Our 1st ABC Biennial. At the ABC meeting Trudy and I where manning the ABC Interim Ministries Program booth when Danial dropped in and recognized us as long time CBFers.
JE Pettibone
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Yikes Ed, age and time. I attended most ABC biennial meetings while I was in the ABC. So, they start to blur together a bit. Shoot, I've already attended eight United Methodist annual conferences. I confess I can't always remember the details of very many of them down the road. :wink:
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby David Flick » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:56 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Ed: Which ABWA Tim, the American Business Womens Association or the Association of Black Women Attorneys? :wink: OH No, I Guess you mean that group of 15 or 20 folk who Martched into the first ABC Biennial to be held in the south, @ Richmond


Yes, I reversed some letters. I'll confess that after seven years in UMC land I'm starting to forget what ABC folks call things. In the UMC world it is called the "Reconciling Ministries Network" or RMN.

I do remember not getting to the mic. And I remember the three of us having lunch. After that, my recollections of the Richmond Biennial are pretty fuzzy.

Right now I'm in Des Moines at the Iowa Annual Conference UMC.
    JE Pettibone wrote:Uh Tim, the Biennial where You Flick and I had lunch together was Denver as was the my only four minutes addressing assembled ABC delegates. 2 years after Richmond where about the only person other than Trudy that I had prior acquaintance with was CBF Coordinator Danial Vestal who had come up from Greensboro CBF Assembly to deliver fraternal greetings to the ABC. Like this year Trudy and I attended both meetings of the 2 organizations. Richmond was Our 1st ABC Biennial. At the ABC meeting Trudy and I where manning the ABC Interim Ministries Program booth when Danial dropped in and recognized us as long time CBFers.

      Ed, I'm sitting here trying to remember what year that was. Seems like it was sometime between '03 & '05. Unbelievable how rapidly time passes at our age! Help me out here. What year was it?

      Incidentally, I distinctly remember you getting up on the platform and addressing the delegates. As I recall, you, Trudy, and I were sitting together during that session...
User avatar
David Flick
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8414
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:55 pm
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:42 pm

David Flick wrote: "Ed, I'm sitting here trying to remember what year that was. Seems like it was sometime between '03 & '05. Unbelievable how rapidly time passes at our age! Help me out here. What year was it?"

Ed: David, I can not say with absolute certainty (Denver) was one of the few meeting that we have flown to, usually I date meetings by what car I was driving. How ever I believe it was 05 but for the life of me I do not recall what vehicle we left at the Albany, Ny. Airport.
JE Pettibone
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby William Thornton » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:40 pm

The folks were present outside the convention center passing out stuff. They were very sedate, quiet, smiling, and clever. Their handout had the logo and theme of the annual meeting, probably a trademark or copyright infringement. That made it look like it was an SBC group.

No big deal.
My stray thoughts on SBC stuff may be found at my blog, SBC Plodder
User avatar
William Thornton
Site Admin
 
Posts: 11814
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:30 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby JE Pettibone » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:20 pm

William wrote "The folks were present outside the convention center passing out stuff. They were very sedate, quiet, smiling, and clever. Their handout had the logo and theme of the annual meeting, probably a trademark or copyright infringement. That made it look like it was an SBC group.:

No big deal.

Ed: William I must quibble, trademark and/or copyright infringement are big deals regardless of who's work is being violated.
JE Pettibone
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:48 am

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:43 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:
Rvaughn wrote:http://sbcvoices.com/faith-in-america-to-protest-sbc17/
"...Faith in America, a pro-LGBT advocacy group, plans to protest the 2017 annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention being held next week in Phoenix, AZ."
http://www.bpnews.net/48981/prolgbt-group-plans-protest-at-sbc-2017


While I'm an ally of the LGBTQ+ community, that is just a waste of time. The SBC doesn't even recognize fully the gifts of women. Get them into the 20th century before you try to get them into the 21st. :wink:


But they do recognize the complete trustworthiness and infallibility (incapable of error) of scripture and the Word of God speaks clearly to the LGBT sin and to the fullness of God gifting women. Some of those in the 21st and 20th century needs to put their scissors down :wink: while reading the Bible.
Living in Dubai for that which I was purposed
User avatar
Jon Estes
 
Posts: 443
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:14 am

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Tim Bonney » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:45 am

William Thornton wrote:The folks were present outside the convention center passing out stuff. They were very sedate, quiet, smiling, and clever. Their handout had the logo and theme of the annual meeting, probably a trademark or copyright infringement. That made it look like it was an SBC group.

No big deal.


Protest or information rallies are pretty much a usual thing at most national denominational meetings I've been to. As I'm not a General Conference delegate, I always here about those second hand in the UMC.
Tim Bonney

First UMC of Indianola, Iowa - http://indfumc.org
My Blog - http://timbonney.com
User avatar
Tim Bonney
Site Admin
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:17 am
Location: Indianola, Iowa

Re: Group protests SBC 2017

Postby Sandy » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:36 am

Jon Estes wrote:
Timothy Bonney wrote:
While I'm an ally of the LGBTQ+ community, that is just a waste of time. The SBC doesn't even recognize fully the gifts of women. Get them into the 20th century before you try to get them into the 21st. :wink:


But they do recognize the complete trustworthiness and infallibility (incapable of error) of scripture and the Word of God speaks clearly to the LGBT sin and to the fullness of God gifting women. Some of those in the 21st and 20th century needs to put their scissors down :wink: while reading the Bible.


Well, it might not have been a complete waste of time. About 80% of the SBC, if political estimates of white evangelical support for Donald Trump are correct, has come to accept sexual harassment and assault, misogyny, gambling, strip clubs, dishonesty and lying, tax cheating, and business fraud, abandoning most of the principles of that trustworthy, infallible Bible for he sake of political expediency, and they're down to just a couple of issues now. Maybe the protest group thought they could appeal to common sense, and get them to abandon something else. Trump claims to be fully supportive of the LGBT community, and protective of their rights, and since he's replaced the trustworthy, infallible Bible as the source of authority for his evangelical supporters on most of these issues, perhaps this group thought they could change some minds.
Sandy
Sandy
 
Posts: 8193
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:10 pm
Location: Rural Western Pennsylvania


Return to SBC News and Trends

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest