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I find two things here. First, I do applaud the SBC for moving into racial reconciliation as a goal. This move would have done wonders for Baptist pastors in the South in the 1950's and 60's who were being fired "for being liberal on race." The history is still difficult to clean up as many strong SBC churches were the local base for the White Citizens Council, an organization dedicated to resisting integration. It's interesting that the denomination is integrating, but most of its local churches are having a hard time with this. CBF also struggles with the same reality, perhaps having a larger percentage of churches with integrated and diverse ministries but still struggling to reach into minority communities.

Second, the decline of SBC churches across the South, is the continuation of the demographic trend that was cited as reason for the takeover/resurgence. "Moderate conservatives" didn't have the strength to evangelize in a new context as did "fundamental conservatives," according to the Peace Committee's language. The truth is that neither group has found the answer to effective evangelism in the changing culture, and the old SBC culture died in the 1970's, that culture of support for churches and Christian values from the broader society. Both CBF and the SBC do fairly well in the cities, but the smaller cities and towns are often a wasteland of churches still looking to clone the great pastor or bring back the kind of church they had in the 1950's and 60's.

It's also going to be interesting to see how the Donald Trump style of rhetoric will affect the SBC. I'm already aware that his strength is a lot of traditional Baptists (not SBC leaders but pew-sitters) who are welcoming the xenophobic and racist comments that are there. I wonder how the SBC statements will play in Trump's southern state strongholds. Any thoughts?

Brings some much needed perspective to the Poles of myself on one hand, and Thornton and Sandy on the other.

I am glad he stil participates among the barbarians on this board.

Well...there you go again with a nonsensical foray into the 50s nd 60s. The current year, stephen, is 2016. Obama is president. Hil is likely his successor. Gay marriage is legal. George Wallace is dead. I interact with black SBC pastors almost every day.

Join a good church and get up to date on church life.

Affirmed by one of the leading analysts of religion in America today, Paul Harvey, in the high eschelon with Randall Balmer, Steven Miller and Mark Noll.

Harvey is the author of one of the best books Ive read in the last seven years, Moses Jesus and the Trickster.

Related to this board I think it is fair to say he comes down on the side of Dave Roberts.

Their key insight is to explore in real politik how the SBC has found a way to lean toward Trump with Richard Land and Eric Metaxas at the same time recognizing that SBC takeover gave rise to this Trump moment.

Interesting piece Im sure Thornton and Sandy will find fault with, but I hope they are better than Jerry Vines in conceding it well worth their deliberation

http://religiondispatches.org/baptist-r ... lture-war/

Senator Lankford from Oklahoma a patsy of the NRA assuming key role in SBC's ongoing alignment with the FAR Right. Pressler has to be ecstatic about what he has wrought even without a microphone. Criswell lives on in full glory.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/southern-bap ... -cms-23490

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... rs/488114/

Land Rebounds, still the heart of the Takeover

Ronnie Floyd as big a Lackey as he ever was

Let me say at the start, I don't care one way or the other about the Confederate flag per se. I had ancestors on both sides of the Civil War. My father was from Virginia down in the hills near the Tennessee border. My mother's family were railroad people from Pennsylvania.
But since the shooting in Charleston there has been a concerted effort (mostly coming from the left) to erase completely and vestige of southern history. Signs of it are all over, from South Carolina, to Georgia, to Mississippi and elsewhere, it is like the political mindset is to erase southern history and pretend it did not happen.
History is meant for us to learn from. Erasing history and pretending it did not happen benefits no one.
To me, this amendment is just one more piece in the overall puzzle to erase the South from the national memory. And that is all I have to say about that (apologies to Forest Gump).

Robert E Lee among them and a lot of poor Baptist farmers who fought because the "Yankees were down Here". Im glad my Great grandfather who is buried a mile from my house in Bama, fought with the Union as did Judge Frank Johnson's grandfather.

The Flag got revitalized and put back up on state capitols in late 50s and early 60s as resentment to Brown V Board of Education.

The Sad thing now is best I can figger Sandy and his friends in the SBC can't bring themselves to see what the NRA is now, which in effect is the latest Confederate Flag. The Flag and race baiting has morphed into support for the NRA and Assault Weapons and the SBC is no further along in standing against it than they were in the early 60s when the Confederate Flag went back up the flagpoles.

That is a legacy of the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC; same song different verse. Foy Valentine minus Pressler and Helms and my litany, would have the SBC at a different place now re assault weapons and the NRA. but as it is the leadership--see the rally to Trump's side-- is still in the woodshed with Joe McCarthy .

waiting on Ike to come give em a spanking

Also google Hal Crowther, The New Mind of the South, Oxford American.

stumbled across it today at Barnes and Noble near Rome Georgia. Houses of the Civil War.

The home of Stephens, the LT Gov of the Confederacy in Crawford Co Ga. His story is fascinating breaks several ways in Sandy analysis of the legacy of the Lost Cause

Thornton will like it too

virulent racist didn't come across in the book. Man of his times but wanted to stay in Union till push came to shove.More like Rob.ert E Lee than John Calhoun from the book though he, Stephens did believe in slavery Unlike Tom Watson in his later years Stephens appears to have some redeeming qualities, as did Jeff Davis wife according to Cokie Roberts.