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Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:05 pm
by Tim Bonney
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: Dave, I am going to be busy for a few days so I am not going to follow up on this consistently. I do however Have an understanding of the delima sp you present. We all ready have several Yoked churches in Upstate NYS. I do not see for the life of me how a Baptist Pastor can be a part time Presbyterian or Methodist. The ones I know call it a real struggle.


I'm not necessarily sure Dave was talking about yoking PCUSA to Baptist churches but maybe getting Baptist churches to share a pastor. Or were you talking about more yoked/federated churches Dave?

What the UMC does with a federated church is that one time the pastor will be Methodist the next time from the other denomination back and forth.

Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:15 pm
by Tim Bonney
William Thornton wrote:I think Dave is right on this. There are a lot of retired, semi-retired SBC clergy in the marketplace on my area. Downsizing at the GBC and NAMB put a lot of people out there looking for jobs. Seminaries continue to churn out far more grads than there are viable church positions and my sense is that there are more churches that are barely marginal in being able to have a FT pastor.


Interesting William. While your seminaries are cranking out more grads than can find jobs the UMC in several parts of the country are going short on clergy. We don't have enough students in seminary to replace the retirees in big part because of cost of seminary education coupled with the fact that you don't make much money in ministry to try to pay off educational debt.

The last two years our conference has had over 30 clergy retire and ordained something like a dozen each year. You can go in the hole fast that way.

At the same time multi-point charges (two or more churches sharing a pastor) becomes a larger percentage of our appointments not only due to a shortage of clergy but also small churches not being able to pay much.

Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 6:43 am
by Dave Roberts
Timothy Bonney wrote:
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: Dave, I am going to be busy for a few days so I am not going to follow up on this consistently. I do however Have an understanding of the delima sp you present. We all ready have several Yoked churches in Upstate NYS. I do not see for the life of me how a Baptist Pastor can be a part time Presbyterian or Methodist. The ones I know call it a real struggle.


I'm not necessarily sure Dave was talking about yoking PCUSA to Baptist churches but maybe getting Baptist churches to share a pastor. Or were you talking about more yoked/federated churches Dave?

What the UMC does with a federated church is that one time the pastor will be Methodist the next time from the other denomination back and forth.


I was addressing Baptists working together perhaps to share a pastor in two or three congregations. I simply used the local presbytery of the PCUSA because CBFVA is in the same building so we usually have conversations every week.

Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:59 am
by William Thornton
Each of the three churches I pastored went "full time" in the 1950s and stopped sharing a pastor with one or more other nearby churches. It was a big deal to do that. It would be a very big deal, negatively, to contemplate going back to that. But, money drives a lot of church decisions.

Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 4:28 pm
by Ed Pettibone
Dave Roberts wrote:
Timothy Bonney wrote:
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: Dave, I am going to be busy for a few days so I am not going to follow up on this consistently. I do however Have an understanding of the delima sp you present. We all ready have several Yoked churches in Upstate NYS. I do not see for the life of me how a Baptist Pastor can be a part time Presbyterian or Methodist. The ones I know call it a real struggle.


I'm not necessarily sure Dave was talking about yoking PCUSA to Baptist churches but maybe getting Baptist churches to share a pastor. Or were you talking about more yoked/federated churches Dave?

What the UMC does with a federated church is that one time the pastor will be Methodist the next time from the other denomination back and forth.


I was addressing Baptists working together perhaps to share a pastor in two or three congregations. I simply used the local presbytery of the PCUSA because CBFVA is in the same building so we usually have conversations every week.


Ed: Thanks Dave, this discussion has helped me get the difference between a yoked church and a federated church straight in my mind. Federated being two or more churches of different denominations Sharing a pastor,building, and ancillary ministries, but continuing to maintain separate budgets and ecclesiastical structure and reporting denominational responsibility. In this area The tenure of Federated church pastors follows a variety of patterns, spelled out in formal documents. When a Presbyterian leaves they are replaced by a Baptist and when they leave a new Presbyterian is brought in. Yoked churches are two or more Churches of the same denomination in closely related geographical areas, sharing a pastor AND perhaps but not necessarily cooperating in ancillary ministries and events, usually in separate buildings in each area and desperate budgets. How ever two or more churches may share a pastor and have no other direct contact, these wold not be considered as either yoked or federated churches. I have been aware of an ABC pastor who had two churches 40 miles apart in two different associations. One met at 9:30 AM and has SS after the worship service the other had SS at 10:45 and worship at 11:30.

Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:35 pm
by Haruo
Although 'desperate' may be à propos in many cases, I think you meant 'separate', Ed.

Re: IMB to cut 600-800 missionaries

PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:45 pm
by Ed Pettibone
Haruo wrote:Although 'desperate' may be à propos in many cases, I think you meant 'separate', Ed.


Ed: Thanks Haruo ! However desperation in budgets is what has forced many into this arrangement. :(