A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

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A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:02 am

I have trouble believing this one. Surely it could not be in worse taste than to attack America's premier preacher at the time of his death.

http://bit.ly/1GkvNyU
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste

Postby Haruo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:24 am

For a moment there I thought Billy Graham must have died.

I know little of Craddock, but Allen's blog makes me want to read more.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste

Postby William Thornton » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:38 am

Yep, I thought one of you would see this.

I've heard a couple od Craddock's sermons and enjoyed them. The question of expository vs. inductive preaching loses me in the definitions and details. I'd call myself an expository preacher but saying you are SBC and not claiming that is like saying you hate fried chicken. Many of the guys that tout expository preaching are actually dramatic readers of a passage without anything that could accurately be called a sermon.

I changed Dave's topic title to be more specific.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby William Thornton » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:41 am

I generally wait until after the funeral to criticize someone. After that, I don't much see bad taste being exhibited, though I understand folks not liking their heroes criticized. Craddock's approach to preaching is fair game, though I don't see it exactly as Allen and Mohler do. Not my area, actually.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:43 am

William Thornton wrote:Yep, I thought one of you would see this.

I've heard a couple od Craddock's sermons and enjoyed them. The question of expository vs. inductive preaching loses me in the definitions and details. I'd call myself an expository preacher but saying you are SBC and not claiming that is like saying you hate fried chicken. Many of the guys that tout expository preaching are actually dramatic readers of a passage without anything that could accurately be called a sermon.

I changed Dave's topic title to be more specific.


Thanks, William. Craddock was the preacher a few years ago for the BGAV annual meeting, and he was amazingly rich. I think Allen must only allow for "suppository sermons."
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:44 am

William Thornton wrote:I generally wait until after the funeral to criticize someone. After that, I don't much see bad taste being exhibited, though I understand folks not liking their heroes criticized. Craddock's approach to preaching is fair game, though I don't see it exactly as Allen and Mohler do. Not my area, actually.

Interestingly, when you read Craddock, he was often his own sharpest critic.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:48 am

I think all preaching models are subject to criticism. If a preacher only has one method in his or her toolbox, there won't be many long pastorates. In fact, the challenge of variety is a big one for preachers. The most often used preaching text among Baptists from the 1960's onward was Brown, Clinard and Northcutt's "Steps to the Sermon." They advocated using variety in delivery styles and in development methods.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Haruo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:39 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:I think all preaching models are subject to criticism. If a preacher only has one method in his or her toolbox, there won't be many long pastorates. In fact, the challenge of variety is a big one for preachers. The most often used preaching text among Baptists from the 1960's onward was Brown, Clinard and Northcutt's "Steps to the Sermon." They advocated using variety in delivery styles and in development methods.

And there are probably mohlers out there who draw the lesson from that fact that variety in preaching models, aka having more than one wrench in the toolbox, leads to a decline in baptisms, the desinfulizing of homosexual marriage, and the decline of the nation and the West.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:55 pm

This was just another one of those cases of Al Mohler and others looking bad in public. I'm about the place now that nothing he says would surprise me. Dr. Craddock was an excellent preacher whatever methodology he was using. Do you wonder about the need to tear down people after they are dead? What points are Allen and Mohler trying to score here?
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Haruo » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:17 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:What points are Allen and Mohler trying to score here?
Maybe they learned from their reading of Scripture that the lower they get, the closer they get to sit to Jesus in the hereafter.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Sandy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:39 pm

First, note the slant in this particular article. Mohler's statements are not current, they are from a 2009 Moody Press journal article. Only Allen's comments are current.

Second, let's be honest here. There's more evaluation, discussion and criticism of preaching styles, and more professional jealousy, among preachers than among any other category of professional. Everyone has their preference, their favorite, their preferred style--usually their own--and those who develop celebrity status like Craddock are both criticized by those who don't prefer their style, and imitated by those who do. I'm not one who is impressed by the "style" or the oratorical skill of a preacher, I'm impressed when a preacher connects with me because he's connected with the Holy Spirit, and what he tells me leads to a similar encounter, whether that brings conviction, or inspiration. Personally, I've found those to be rare experiences. And I really don't evaluate preachers based on their preaching style, oratorical style, or other external factors. I look for sincerity and clarity, someone who's not just preaching a set of ideas, but who took the time to find out something about the people being preached to.

I never really heard Craddock preach, and never read any of his books. But I suspect, like any other prominent, well known preacher identified by his style, he has both his critics and his adoring fans. His name came up in the news as a result of his recent death, which made it news, and I'll bet there are some other critics who've made similar remarks as a result. Of course, the Baptist News Global is an adulating admirer of the man, and would probably express holy horror at any criticism of him, regardless of who made it or when it was made, as evidenced by the six year old statement from Mohler. But neither Allen nor Mohler is anything but respectful in their criticism. I don't think it would have taken much effort to find any of a dozen recent comments from people who were not enthralled with Craddock, but they specifically chose Mohler's comments in Moody, because their intention is to bash Southern Baptists.

Oh, and of course, there are plenty of critics here who are willing to jump on Al Mohler for just about anything, even though the quote is six years old, from a professional preaching journal, where it would be perfectly acceptable, and in the context of which any similar comment about Craddock not coming from a Southern Baptist would be seen as just a professional evaluation, not a criticism.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Tim Bonney » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:55 pm

Sandy, you have a differing gage as to what measures as "respectful." I am glad that Mohler's comments pre-date Craddock's death. But Allen does a poor job of describing what inductive preaching is about. Inductive preaching in no way means that someone doesn't believe the content of their own sermons. That is a silly characterization.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Sandy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:00 pm

Timothy Bonney wrote:Sandy, you have a differing gage as to what measures as "respectful." I am glad that Mohler's comments pre-date Craddock's death. But Allen does a poor job of describing what inductive preaching is about. Inductive preaching in no way means that someone doesn't believe the content of their own sermons. That is a silly characterization.


Note that all but a few of Allen's quotes are not cited in context, but with commentary from the author. I see only one full quote from Allen, not related to what you've mentioned. Given the slant of the author and the publication, I'm not sure the impression that has been left is an accurate characterization of what he said.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:53 pm

Sandy wrote:Note that all but a few of Allen's quotes are not cited in context, but with commentary from the author. I see only one full quote from Allen, not related to what you've mentioned.


Do you have a full quote for what Allen has said? I have not seen it so I could appreciate the context. By the way, do you find his remarks in good taste?
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Sandy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:06 pm

http://jasonkallen.com/2015/03/one-auth ... preaching/

Here's the blog in its entirety, not really a critique or criticism of Craddock at all, but simply a statement of his own view of preaching.

Looks like the article in Baptist News Global is slanted. Most of what is cited in their article is lifted from a blog that Allen wrote back in October of 2014 which was a critique of Craddock's book. There's only one notation in his most recent blog about Craddock, about his recent death, and it's not a tasteless criticism of Craddock at all, not even close.

That's the sort of thing that moderates accuse Baptist Press of doing.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:48 pm

Sandy wrote:http://jasonkallen.com/2015/03/one-authority-fred-craddock-authoritative-preaching/

Here's the blog in its entirety, not really a critique or criticism of Craddock at all, but simply a statement of his own view of preaching.

Looks like the article in Baptist News Global is slanted. Most of what is cited in their article is lifted from a blog that Allen wrote back in October of 2014 which was a critique of Craddock's book. There's only one notation in his most recent blog about Craddock, about his recent death, and it's not a tasteless criticism of Craddock at all, not even close.

That's the sort of thing that moderates accuse Baptist Press of doing.


Sandy, thanks for the full article. It is not all about Craddock, but obviously Allen never heard Fred Craddock who engaged both the gospel and the listener, began where he believed his hearers were, and sometimes by his stories and his ability to engage an audience, dragged his hearers into an encounter with God that was a biblically based as anyone I have heard from the "authority" camp ever did. I have read Craddock's book (and have it somewhere in a box packed when I left settled ministry for intentional interim work). I will read it again when I find it. I do not remember any undermining of biblical authority at all by Craddock. Allen's blog may not be quite as tasteless as portrayed, but it certainly seems to attack a straw man of his own creation, not a gifted communicator of the good news who actually knew what it was.
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Sandy » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:32 pm

Most of Allen's critique cited in this piece was written in an essay in October 2014 that was a review of Craddock's book, not his actual preaching. But I would guess that when Allen went to seminary, the focus in preaching classes had moved well beyond the era of Craddock, Joel Gregory, and other "style-identified" preachers. It was fading when I was in seminary, and Allen is about 20 years younger than me. I think some perspective may also be involved here. If you look at Craddock as one of the "top preachers" in the country of his day, then any criticism is going to touch a sensitive nerve. On the other hand, I've never heard Craddock, and never read anything he wrote. I know of him only by his name and reputation, and I see this kind of thing as common in the "preacher world."
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:08 am

Sandy wrote:Most of Allen's critique cited in this piece was written in an essay in October 2014 that was a review of Craddock's book, not his actual preaching. But I would guess that when Allen went to seminary, the focus in preaching classes had moved well beyond the era of Craddock, Joel Gregory, and other "style-identified" preachers. It was fading when I was in seminary, and Allen is about 20 years younger than me. I think some perspective may also be involved here. If you look at Craddock as one of the "top preachers" in the country of his day, then any criticism is going to touch a sensitive nerve. On the other hand, I've never heard Craddock, and never read anything he wrote. I know of him only by his name and reputation, and I see this kind of thing as common in the "preacher world."


Common, yes!
Right, no!
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Re: A New Low in Bad Taste: SBCers criticize Craddock

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:34 am

I loved this response to someone who knew Craddock. Perhaps Dr. Allen needs to read this.

http://baptistnews.com/perspectives/leaving-fred-craddocks-funeral-yearning-just-to-be-christian/
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