Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Ferguson

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Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Ferguson

Postby Sandy » Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:56 pm

http://sbcvoices.com/russell-moore-the- ... kissic-sr/

Quite a contrast there between Dwight McKissic and Randy White, of FBC Katy, Texas. Both are pastors in large Texas suburbs, with McKissic's church being a large, predominantly African American congregation in the middle of an upper middle class suburb in Arlington, and White's being a large, very well to do, mostly WASP congregation.

I was particularly attracted to White's interpretation of scripture as it relates to the terminology "Kingdom of God." He seems quite certain that a restoration of national Israel, post-rapture and second coming, is what the scriptures mean in reference to the "Kingdom of God." I'd be very interested to see how that concept plays out here, since I wouldn't even be able to venture a guess. I don't buy that view at all, and it certainly opens the door to the church not being any kind of institution except the kind Paul warned about in Thessalonians, sitting on its hands waiting for Jesus to part the sky and come down.
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:03 pm

Relegating the Kingdom of God to a restored Israel in a rapture scheme makes a mockery of the Lord's Prayer meaning that praying for the kingdom to come on earth as in heaven has nothing to do with how we live. It reminds me of a quote from Dr. Frank Stagg--"Some Christians are so heavenly minded, they are just no earthly good."
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 pm

Has you've said Sandy, it is a nice neat way to sit on your hands till Jesus comes and not take any responsibility for the needs of the community that the church is supposed to minster in. I think that is why Darbyism/Rapture theology is attractive.
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby ET » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:22 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:Has you've said Sandy, it is a nice neat way to sit on your hands till Jesus comes and not take any responsibility for the needs of the community that the church is supposed to minster in. I think that is why Darbyism/Rapture theology is attractive.

I don't have much disagreement with White on future events, but his apparent application of them (based on the excerpts in the article) reminds me somewhat of the servant who buried his master's talent in the ground. Just because we can't fully wipe every injustice from this world doesn't mean we shouldn't work to do what we can to work towards that goal. Most certainly if he doesn't see racial reconciliation as part of the gospel, he's got a HUGE blind spot.

That said, I take issue with those running around saying they want "justice", but seem not to mean a legal proceeding where the result is based on the evidence (and not solely evidence on FB, "he said she said" statements and video clips shown on TV), but they want "justice" as in "this is the outcome I want and if I don't get it 'justice' was not done".
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby David Flick » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:08 pm

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      I spent the past hour reading the lengthy comment chain. Very, very interesting. Although I have very little respect for Moore, I think he's spot on this time...
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby Sandy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:37 pm

I'd think it would be difficult to separate White's application of "The Kingdom of God" from his premillenial dispensational view of future events. A restored, theocratic Israel is, in a futurist perspective, a key part of a restored and sanctified earth, the "New Jerusalem" that gets swept up into the new heaven with the new earth. Separating the interpretation from the application requires insertion of a marker to distinguish between "dispensations," something that is speculative in nature. I don't buy either White's view of future events, or his interpretation of the Kingdom of God.

ET wrote:That said, I take issue with those running around saying they want "justice", but seem not to mean a legal proceeding where the result is based on the evidence (and not solely evidence on FB, "he said she said" statements and video clips shown on TV), but they want "justice" as in "this is the outcome I want and if I don't get it 'justice' was not done".


If justice were simply a matter of a ruling by a legal proceeding such as, say, a grand jury hearing, I'd be inclined to agree. But a grand jury is not a dispenser of justice, it exists simply to determine if enough evidence exists to warrant an indictment that could be upheld in a trial. As such, it does not determine what is just, it simply determines, from its very limited perspective, combined with the prejudices and biases of its members, and the way in which the evidence was presented, including the persuasive arguments of the attorneys representing both sides, whether there is evidence to prove the individual police officer involved committed a crime, and therefore whether a criminal court is to be involved in the decision.

In Ferguson, I believe justice will most likely take the form of a relatively large check that will come about either as a result of a settlement, or a civil suit jury verdict. While the DA seemed to want to slam the door shut on any possible use of any witness testimony to support a federal case, the grand jury report itself lists specific policy and procedural violations committed by the Ferguson Police in their investigation of Michael Brown's death. So a civil lawsuit, of the O.J. Simpson variety, will bring at least some measure of justice in this particular case. And it seems quite likely, from the very clear evidence in the video that both the Staten Island grand jury, and the rest of America, has seen repeatedly in the Eric Garner case, that a federal judge and jury not made up of Staten Islanders, will decide what justice will be in that case.
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby Neil Heath » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:04 pm

Sandy, one point related to your last post. From what I have read and heard in news reports, a grand jury hears from the prosecutor but does not hear from the defense attorney. I would also add that a friend who has served on a grand jury here in Ga. tells me there was no appearance by witnesses in that process. Perhaps other states do it differently, but I understood the proper role of a grand jury as far as criminal cases go is simply to hear the prosecutor's case from him or her and then decide if there is sufficient evidence to send it to trial by issuing an indictment.
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Nity gritty in Alabama calls for panel with Speaker of the H

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:46 pm

Mike Hubbard

www.drshow.org panel on Monday was excellent on falout from Ferguson and Eric Garner.

Isabel Wilkerson and Monroeville's--Harpler Lee--Cynthia Tucker should panel with Mike Hubbard framed by the Coverstory by Jason Zengerle in New Republic about two months ago.
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Re: Southern Baptists offer differing perspectives on Fergus

Postby Sandy » Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:20 pm

Neil Heath wrote:Sandy, one point related to your last post. From what I have read and heard in news reports, a grand jury hears from the prosecutor but does not hear from the defense attorney. I would also add that a friend who has served on a grand jury here in Ga. tells me there was no appearance by witnesses in that process. Perhaps other states do it differently, but I understood the proper role of a grand jury as far as criminal cases go is simply to hear the prosecutor's case from him or her and then decide if there is sufficient evidence to send it to trial by issuing an indictment.


That's right. The report of the grand jury is on CNN's website. Hard to tell, just from that, what influences were at work that kept them from indicting. I suppose the selection of a grand jury is random, but can you really get an unbiased one in St. Louis county, under the circumstances.
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Oreilly, ML King III and Samuel L Jackson

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:46 pm

Earlier this week, maybe Tuesday they were on. It may be on Utube. Interesting segment opened with Billy's talking points.

For me, it comes down to whether Bams House Speaker Mike Hubbard will panel with Isabel Wilkerson and Cynthia Tucker to discuss the court fee system in Bama and the cover stroy of the New Republic by Jason Zengerle two months ago.

That the guts of the matter where I live; how it all shakes down.

See my recent blog on Criswell and Atwater. I brought it to the attention of Rus Moore's March Summitt facebook wall

http://www.foxofbama.blogspot.com

And here is the Oreilly utube story:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/bill ... 14-shirts/
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