SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

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Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:06 pm

The SBC will most likely have a resolution on the new Billboard in Leeds posted by the Southern League. It made a ten minute segment this morn on Regional NPR. Says something to the effect Anti Racism is Anti-White. Big Sign on I-20 as you come in from Atlanta
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Haruo » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:03 am

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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Jerry_B » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:04 pm

My point is about the touted independence of the smaller SBC conventions, not the sincerity of the workers. There is a company line so to speak that is expected to adhered to if you want to continue to receive funding. It goes beyond just affirming the 2000 BF&M. I'm also not saying this is a bad thing or done in a sneaky way, you sign up with NAMB you should know what is expected because they make it clear. It just riles me when it is called independent, when clearly it isn't.

Im not making claims based on conjecture or here say, I have sat in meetings when NAMB supported, state convention employees have threatened to remove support from the association if, as an association, we refused to affirm a new emphasis on church planting. Also told in same meeting that if we refused, they come in and do said church planting anyway.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby William Thornton » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:32 pm

Jerry_B wrote:I have sat in meetings when NAMB supported, state convention employees have threatened to remove support from the association if, as an association, we refused to affirm a new emphasis on church planting. Also told in same meeting that if we refused, they come in and do said church planting anyway.


I'd be interested in an expanded view of your experience here. NAMB has money to use in accord with their mission statement. The past few years have seen a considerable change in their funding requirements which has altered the status quo. As long as NAMB pours funds into a state convention, they should be able to determine their useage. We had a long history of ineffectiveness in many areas where NAMB kept funding the same leaders and programs.

There is no question independence is compromised. Well it should be.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Jerry_B » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:05 pm

I left the smal convention, even smaller association and haven't worked with NAMB since. I live in Texas, lots more options. I don't disagree that they should have say, just seems the independent thing comes up, only when there are problems and they need to separate themselves from said problem, they don't actu believe in it.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Sandy » Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:10 pm

Jerry_B wrote:My point is about the touted independence of the smaller SBC conventions, not the sincerity of the workers. There is a company line so to speak that is expected to adhered to if you want to continue to receive funding. It goes beyond just affirming the 2000 BF&M. I'm also not saying this is a bad thing or done in a sneaky way, you sign up with NAMB you should know what is expected because they make it clear. It just riles me when it is called independent, when clearly it isn't.

Im not making claims based on conjecture or here say, I have sat in meetings when NAMB supported, state convention employees have threatened to remove support from the association if, as an association, we refused to affirm a new emphasis on church planting. Also told in same meeting that if we refused, they come in and do said church planting anyway.


No one is twisting their arm to accept the funding, or to do the partnerships. In that regard, they are independent. There are parameters for that support, as there very well should be. Those conditions for church planting are not surprises. NAMB restructured, and is focusing resources on church planting. Of course, that may alter some of the old partnership ministries, but they feel that the best use of resources from the national body is church planting, and expanding metropolitan ministries, where the people actually live. That shifts some of what used to be ministry in partnership with NAMB back to the state convention. I've worked in NAMB ministries enough to know that the partnerships with state conventions are based on covenant relationships, so if there's a change in the way those ministries are funded and conducted, there must also be a change in the covenant. I don't doubt that some of the state convention employees might couch it in terms that sound like "do this or else" but if the convention body has approved the relationship under terms they knew in advance, then I don't see that as encroaching on their "independence."

I'm not aware that there are employees of state conventions that are "NAMB supported." I know that in many of the smaller states, DOM's were NAMB supported, or at least in part.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Jerry_B » Mon Nov 03, 2014 10:11 pm

I don't know how NAMB does their funding now, but the convention and association back then, had NAMB folks. Most where some sort of partnership involving insurance and money for ministry related activities.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:48 pm

I returned this afternoon from the Baptist General Association of Virginia meeting in Hampton, VA. We heard some very challenging messages from Dr. Gary Nelson, a Canadian. We adopted a new streamlined structure for the future governance of the BGAV replacing the Mission Board of more than 100 members with a 15-member executive committee and a 15-member Missions Council. I hope it works, but the board had gotten so cumbersome that it was no longer effective when that many people had to come together on every major decision. Also, BGAV now has affiliated churches as far west as Hawaii who want to be a part because of what they see the VA Baptists doing in the world. We also got a report from our More than Nets effort that some 38,000 mosquito nets have been distributed in one area, reducing the incidence of Malaria there by more than 24%. Also, it was announced that several churches have been started where the nets have been distributed.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Jerry_B » Wed Nov 19, 2014 12:30 am

Back from Waco. I was encouraged by the diversity of voices represented. There has been a concerted effort in years past to see the convention look more like Texas, we are starting to see some of the fruit of those efforts. There is still a decided senior feel to the attendees and attendance was not terribly impressive. Less than 800 voted for president, though the vote was for a women. David Hardage is doing his best to make what happens at the state level relevant, but this is an old, entrenched organization, it will take time. Overall I left encouraged.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Sandy » Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:00 pm

https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/te ... -s-purpose

Here's the convention coverage on Texas Baptists from the Baptist Standard.

Some notable points:
1. About 1,200 messengers registered. That's about 10% of the number that registered when the convention was in Waco back in 1991, when almost 12,000 registered, and even down from the 5,700 in Houston in 1998, which was the first time I attended after returning to Texas since leaving in the 80's.
2. Revenue projections are $37 million, which is about $3 million down from the previous year, and quite a bit below the $65 million that was pretty standard up into the 1990's, prior to the departure of the SBTC.
3. The BGCT still keeps over 70% of its receipts, and gives 29% to worldwide causes. I would guess that's probably among the lowest percentages of the larger state convention bodies, which seem to be drifting toward a 50-50 split with the SBC.
4. Among major state conventions, the BGCT may be the first to divest itself of its headquarters building, and scatter its offices across the state.
5. A motion to move out of the 19th century and go to remote electronic voting failed, again.
6. The convention changed its purpose for annual meeting to include a time of inspiration and motivation. It seems like that's a move intended to help get the attendance back up.

As far as point #3 is concerned, that is the default percentage for gifts which come in undesignated. Churches in the BGCT may now designate their own formula, and most do, given that the amount forwarded on to world mission causes through the SBC is about $15 million annually, not counting Lottie or Annie, almost half of the total budget. I believe the other state convention, the SBCT, is at a 50-50 split, or better, and has been since it formed. But even in that group, the dollars put into the Cooperative Program are declining.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Jerry_B » Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:37 pm

Electronic voting was studied and a report given last year. One of the major obstacles is Texas law requiring physical attendance for voting privileges. I believe that's correct or at least mostly correct. There are other financial considerations mentioned.

Churches could always designate the percentages, did you mean to imply this was new?
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Dave Roberts » Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:28 pm

State meetings used to draw a great deal of interest, but they don't these days. As I have read reports from several states, I haven't seen any reports of great attendance. Almost all state bodies seem to be reducing budgets at this point. This is especially true of the older state bodies.
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Re: SBC State Annual Meetings Etc...

Postby Sandy » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:55 pm

Jerry_B wrote:Electronic voting was studied and a report given last year. One of the major obstacles is Texas law requiring physical attendance for voting privileges. I believe that's correct or at least mostly correct. There are other financial considerations mentioned.

Churches could always designate the percentages, did you mean to imply this was new?


Churches could always designate percentages, but prior to the formation of the SBTC, only undesignated receipts counted in a church's CP giving, which was considered "contributing to the work of the convention" and which was tied to the number of messengers to which they were entitled. The requirement to give without designation was dropped when the BGCT determined it would use its CP giving to "punish" the conservative resurgence in the SBC by dropping its CP percentage. That was one of the primary catalysts leading to the formation of the SBCT, which, I believe, splits its CP giving 50-50 with the SBC.
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