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Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:05 am
by Dave Roberts
Sandy wrote:
Of course, now the back patting begins...ABP is one of those agencies that makes no mistakes and always gets it right. It's an attack on mean old Paige, so that might even warrant a few shouts, if there wasn't fear of bringing down the roof with the noise.


Patterson is pretty irrelevant to those of us who have left the SBC. My only real point in bringing this up is how he now grabs scripture to keep the lid on things while (in his earlier incarnation) he was the press hound who tried professors, pastors, trustees, denominational administrators, and any who disagreed with him in the press. From the position of power, he preaches a different gospel. I concede that he didn't do it for the local church, but his premise of damaging the Christian witness certainly should apply to the denomination. When I identify myself as Baptist, I'm still asked if I'm Southern Baptist. When I say, "No," I have gotten sighs of relief because their image of Baptists is what was painted in the press by Patterson and others in the Takeover.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:27 am
by Haruo
And those sighs of relief are from those who are relatively well informed. It's not uncommon to meet folks who have never heard of a white Baptist being anything but a (caricatured) Southern Baptist "or worse".

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:32 pm
by Ed Pettibone
Ed: Sandy, when you write
Of course, now the back patting begins...ABP is one of those agencies that makes no mistakes and always gets it right. It's an attack on mean old Paige, so that might even warrant a few shouts, if there wasn't fear of bringing down the roof with the noise.


Who are you trying to impress? No one here has claimed that ABP makes no mistakes and you are the only one talking about "an attack on mean old Paige". For the most part your contributions to this thread looks to me like an attack on ABP and CBF by extension. We are obviously talking past one another so for now I need to get to some other task.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:51 pm
by Sandy
The premise of Patterson's message had to do with not taking the conflict of the church before unbelievers. During the resurgence, I don't really recall ever seeing Patterson involved in a television interview. There was a "debate" on the subject televised on a Sunday night that was simulcast on stations in Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Austin, involving some Texas pastors. Lester Collins, of Tallowood in Houston, was one of the moderate representatives, I don't recall the others, Vestal, perhaps, maybe Cecil Sherman. The conservatives included John Bisagno, W.A. Criswell, and I think maybe Ed Young. Patterson wasn't involved. Nor did he make an appearance in Bill Moyer's documentary on the subject. Pressler did, though not to comment on his involvement in the SBC, and cut the interview off when that line of questioning developed.

Patterson always insisted, though the whole controversy, that if Southern Baptists in the pew had the opportunity to know what their leaders were preaching and teaching when it came to the issue of Biblical authority, they would reject that view. He most definitely used the denominational press to attempt to get that message out, and when he discovered that was going to be a difficult process, he utilized the rapidly developing independent media. I don't ever recall seeing him on television, and I lived in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area for several years while that was going on, or even directly quoted in the secular media, and I don't think he believed that was a viable means of getting the message to the people in the pew.

Patterson at Samford 87

PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:59 pm
by Stephen Fox
April 87; first time I laid eyes on him. I got to a microphone and asked him a question; forgot what it was. He was crafty. Neal Rodgers cooked his goose early with the Laity Journal photo of that invitation to all of Criswell's Bircher friends event, some right wing group in Dallas in 88. Pressler was livid as he often was.

That at core was what Patterson was about the Advancement of the John Birch Society. His "Biblical" Convictions were a tool.

Notice he never called James Deloach down, even when Jim was ready to usher in Armageddon with the blood of a Red Heifer while Ass Pastor of Ed Young at 2nd Houston. That was after Deloach led the push to oust Randall Lolley at SEBTS.

In the Name of Christ? In their Minds only.........

Patterson was on the 7th and Ken Chafin on the 9th. Chafin Said: "A Bible in the Hands of a Believer who will not submit it to rational means of Investigation is a Dangerous Thing, and has often been used to Buttress Up Injustice"

See the new Book Dallas, 1963; see Pressler at Work with Jesse Helms on the side of Roberto Daubuisson in El Salvador.. See Criswell 56 in Columbia South Carolina, and today see Franklin Graham with Judge Roy Moore in Alabama and his cousin Tully discipling Tea Partiers to diss Jesse Jackson at Furman University!

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:24 pm
by Chris
Almost every state in the South has a state Baptist newspaper. Does Patterson allow people to talk to those reporters? If not, there isn't much need for those papers. BTW, our Virginia Baptist paper The Religious Herald, after being published for over 100 years, is merging with Associated Baptist Press on January 1, 2014. Instead of 48 issues per year, I will get 6 issues per year. I am paid up well into next year. Is that fair?

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:52 pm
by Tim Bonney
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed:Sandy I don't see how any one who has heard Patterson more than once can dispute Jerry-B's description of him as a pompous blowhard.


I have to agree with Ed and Jerry. I've heard him in person. Blowhard is the nicest thing I could say.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:27 am
by Sandy
Chris wrote:Almost every state in the South has a state Baptist newspaper. Does Patterson allow people to talk to those reporters? If not, there isn't much need for those papers. BTW, our Virginia Baptist paper The Religious Herald, after being published for over 100 years, is merging with Associated Baptist Press on January 1, 2014. Instead of 48 issues per year, I will get 6 issues per year. I am paid up well into next year. Is that fair?


I posted a link to the chapel message. Patterson clearly makes the distinction between matters judged by the church which should not be taken out of the church. I think it is safe to say that he would make a distinction between the secular press, and the Baptist news media.

Baptist state papers are dinosaurs. There was a time when the print media was the primary means of transmitting information for churches and church organizations. The internet and electronic media has left them in the dust.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:42 am
by Chris
Sandy wrote:Baptist state papers are dinosaurs. There was a time when the print media was the primary means of transmitting information for churches and church organizations. The internet and electronic media has left them in the dust.


There ares till many Baptist senior citizens who don't have access to electronic media. I perceive that the next "terrorist" attack on the USA will cripple, if not wipe out, our electronic media.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:45 am
by Dave Roberts
Several denominational papers have websites and alerts that go out to subscribers that arrive in a timely way. Baptists Today no longer seeks to report much news. It concentrates, thankfully, on in-depth analysis and stories that will not otherwise be covered.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:52 am
by Haruo
Chris is right about the risk of crippling attacks on our electronic media and electronic finances. If and when that "Big One" hits the lack of Baptist newspapers will be among the least of our worries, even for those of us who now spend much time with them.

Re: Fascinating Patterson Comment

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:10 pm
by Ed Pettibone
Haruo wrote:Chris is right about the risk of crippling attacks on our electronic media and electronic finances. If and when that "Big One" hits the lack of Baptist newspapers will be among the least of our worries, even for those of us who now spend much time with them.


Ed: I do not question the risk of crippling attacks on our electronic media and electronic finance, There have been many strong attempts, however I lose no sleep worrying about either electronic media or electronic finance being "Wiped Out". I remember the brief hysteria during the 1965 and 1977 Blackouts.From Illinois to main and into Canada. Most every thing was restored in less than 24 hours in both events. And yes Hauro, the west cost has had some lesser ones also. Similar events have occurred on every continent. They make for fantastic reading via Google.

A word to the wise, if it is important BACK IT UP On a device not connected to the internet. Some things, you may even want to keep a hard copy of, in a fireproof safe.

But Dave, we are far off of your original topic of this thread,.