SBC Military Chaplains

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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Jerry_B » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:21 pm

So killing people reluctantly then?

There is no doubt military personal need spiritual advise, counsel, etc...but wouldn't that be better served by people outside of the military hierarchy?
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Mrs Haruo » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:15 am

"There is no doubt military personal need spiritual advise, counsel, etc...but wouldn't that be better served by people outside of the military hierarchy?"

Speaking as one who has been in the military, trying to get counsel from someone with no experience with pressures and customs of military life was less than helpful, no matter how sincere or well meaning their intent.

Being part of the military hierarchy--and an officer, can sometimes give a military chaplain ability to pull a few strings to help a troubled soldier that a civilian would never have.
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:20 am

Mrs Haruo wrote:"There is no doubt military personal need spiritual advise, counsel, etc...but wouldn't that be better served by people outside of the military hierarchy?"

Speaking as one who has been in the military, trying to get counsel from someone with no experience with pressures and customs of military life was less than helpful, no matter how sincere or well meaning their intent.

Being part of the military hierarchy--and an officer, can sometimes give a military chaplain ability to pull a few strings to help a troubled soldier that a civilian would never have.


Ed: Well said Mrs. H.
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Jerry_B » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:16 pm

I'm not sure that (an insiders perspective and ability to pull a few strings) is a good enough trade off for me to become an insider. How exactly does a chaplain in the military speak truth to power? Strings no matter how light are always strings and will eventually trip you up.

I don't want to turn this into something it wasn't intended to be, but how does a baptist person who believes in the separation of church and state and religious freedom (historic baptist hallmarks) a part of a system where the government is paying you to be a minister?
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:18 pm

Jerry_B wrote:I'm not sure that (an insiders perspective and ability to pull a few strings) is a good enough trade off for me to become an insider. How exactly does a chaplain in the military speak truth to power? Strings no matter how light are always strings and will eventually trip you up.

I don't want to turn this into something it wasn't intended to be, but how does a baptist person who believes in the separation of church and state and religious freedom (historic baptist hallmarks) a part of a system where the government is paying you to be a minister?


That is a very good question. It would certainly be a violation of a chaplain's religious freedom to force him to accept same-sex marriage, or to violate his personal convictions on a similar issue simply because the government has decided what is right, and they are providing the paycheck.
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:54 pm

Sandy wrote:
Jerry_B wrote:I'm not sure that (an insiders perspective and ability to pull a few strings) is a good enough trade off for me to become an insider. How exactly does a chaplain in the military speak truth to power? Strings no matter how light are always strings and will eventually trip you up.

I don't want to turn this into something it wasn't intended to be, but how does a baptist person who believes in the separation of church and state and religious freedom (historic baptist hallmarks) a part of a system where the government is paying you to be a minister?


That is a very good question. It would certainly be a violation of a chaplain's religious freedom to force him to accept same-sex marriage, or to violate his personal convictions on a similar issue simply because the government has decided what is right, and they are providing the paycheck.


Ed: Sandy,while I am not an attorney I think NAMB and you are playing chicken little, and the sky is not falling. The overturning of the DOM act only means that a chaplain must cite religious belief rather than the DOMA, if he or she chooses not to perform a wedding for same sex couples.
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Sandy » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:45 pm

Ed Pettibone wrote:
Sandy wrote:
Jerry_B wrote:I'm not sure that (an insiders perspective and ability to pull a few strings) is a good enough trade off for me to become an insider. How exactly does a chaplain in the military speak truth to power? Strings no matter how light are always strings and will eventually trip you up.

I don't want to turn this into something it wasn't intended to be, but how does a baptist person who believes in the separation of church and state and religious freedom (historic baptist hallmarks) a part of a system where the government is paying you to be a minister?


That is a very good question. It would certainly be a violation of a chaplain's religious freedom to force him to accept same-sex marriage, or to violate his personal convictions on a similar issue simply because the government has decided what is right, and they are providing the paycheck.


Ed: Sandy,while I am not an attorney I think NAMB and you are playing chicken little, and the sky is not falling. The overturning of the DOM act only means that a chaplain must cite religious belief rather than the DOMA, if he or she chooses not to perform a wedding for same sex couples.


That's what I've been saying all along, Ed. For one thing, same-sex marriage is not common, and it would be rare to encounter it in a military context. Two, there are few Christian denominations that allow it to be performed by their clergy and three, a Southern Baptist chaplain would likely not be required to officiate in a situation that compromises his religious beliefs. It's not going to be a problem for Southern Baptist chaplains to follow NAMB's rules.
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Dave Roberts » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:20 am

Sandy wrote:That's what I've been saying all along, Ed. For one thing, same-sex marriage is not common, and it would be rare to encounter it in a military context. Two, there are few Christian denominations that allow it to be performed by their clergy and three, a Southern Baptist chaplain would likely not be required to officiate in a situation that compromises his religious beliefs. It's not going to be a problem for Southern Baptist chaplains to follow NAMB's rules.


Sandy, you made my point that started this thread. The rarity and unlikely reality for an SBC endorsed chaplain to even be asked is remote indeed. That brings me back to the whole point--why did NAMB stir the waters and create this for chaplains whom I hope can be trusted to not be involved in the first place? Doesn't NAMB trust the people whom they have endorsed, or was this all to appeal to a part of the SBC base by making a public statement of what seems self-evident?
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Ed Pettibone » Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:58 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
Sandy wrote:That's what I've been saying all along, Ed. For one thing, same-sex marriage is not common, and it would be rare to encounter it in a military context. Two, there are few Christian denominations that allow it to be performed by their clergy and three, a Southern Baptist chaplain would likely not be required to officiate in a situation that compromises his religious beliefs. It's not going to be a problem for Southern Baptist chaplains to follow NAMB's rules.


Sandy, you made my point that started this thread. The rarity and unlikely reality for an SBC endorsed chaplain to even be asked is remote indeed. That brings me back to the whole point--why did NAMB stir the waters and create this for chaplains whom I hope can be trusted to not be involved in the first place? Doesn't NAMB trust the people whom they have endorsed, or was this all to appeal to a part of the SBC base by making a public statement of what seems self-evident?


Ed: For Sandy and Dave how rare is rare in regard to couples seeking same sex marriage? And why do you think it is remote that that an SBC Chaplain would be asked. Most service personnel coming to a Chaplain asking to be married probably have no idea what denomination the chaplain is endorsed by. From experience I can see that Having a Rabbi or Priest would be of up-most importance Importance to Jewish and Catholic couples but most any Protestant chaplain would be ok with most others. And of course religions other than Judaism and Christianity are represented in the Chaplain Corp. See: Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, & Buddhist.
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Re: SBC Military Chaplains

Postby Haruo » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:27 am

I thought there were Wiccan chaplains, too. And possibly some indigenous shamanistic ones. Bahá'í? I doubt it since they don't have clergy. Quaker? Doubt also on other grounds...
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