Homeschooling and the SBC

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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby William Thornton » Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:12 am

ET wrote:We didn't ever do anything like this, but some good friends of ours have home schooled and one of the coolest features of home schooling is, of course, the ability to not be constrained by a school calendar and be "onsite" at the same campus every day. So every October for a number of years they'd rent a house/condo on the beach for a month in October for the same price as a week in the summer and enjoy the beach without all the tourists around. Do a little schoolin'...hit the beach. Very cool.


I've been reading "homeschooling goes mainstream" articles for years but think there is a ceiling, probably single digit percentages of all school-age kids because of the demands on parents.

We really enjoyed the flexible scheduling, being able to travel with our kids when school was in session. SC required HS parents to declare that they had their kids in the HS for a minimum number of hours per year, same as public school.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby ET » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:11 am

William Thornton wrote:I've been reading "homeschooling goes mainstream" articles for years but think there is a ceiling, probably single digit percentages of all school-age kids because of the demands on parents.

I think you're right, William. There's probably a ceiling out there for it in the range you mention. I think such headlines are more to promote the cause or to intrigue readers into reading the article than to provide factual or logical support for such a premise.

Personally, I'm torn between the noble idea of the community coming together to educate the children and the thought that Christians "abandoning" the public schools may be detrimental overall to the community as a whole, but with so much of the control of education being done by bureaucrats, judges and federal government meddling, I think the de facto monopoly of government education needs to be altered.

Economist Walter Williams wrote a commentary entitled Conflict or Cooperation back in 2010 that addressed this issue. He wrote:
Different Americans have different and often intense preferences for all kinds of goods and services. Some of us have strong preferences for beer and distaste for wine while others have the opposite preference -- strong preferences for wine and distaste for beer. Some of us hate three-piece suits and love blue jeans while others love three-piece suits and hate blue jeans. When's the last time you heard of beer drinkers in conflict with wine drinkers, or three-piece suit lovers in conflict with lovers of blue jeans? It seldom if ever happens because beer and blue jean lovers get what they want. Wine and three-piece suit lovers get what they want and they all can live in peace with one another.

It would be easy to create conflict among these people. Instead of free choice and private decision-making, clothing and beverage decisions could be made in the political arena. In other words, have a democratic majority-rule process to decide what drinks and clothing that would be allowed.
***
The prime feature of political decision-making is that it's a zero-sum game. One person's gain is of necessity another person's loss....The greater the number of decisions made in the political arena, the greater the potential for conflict.

Take the issue of prayers in school as an example. I think that everyone, except a maniacal tyrant, would agree that a parent has the right to decide whether his child will recite a morning prayer in school. Similarly, a parent has a right to decide that his child will not recite a morning prayer. Conflict arises because schools are government owned. That means it is a political decision whether prayers will be permitted or not. A win for one parent means a loss for another parent. The losing parent, in order to get what he wants, would have to muster up private school tuition while continuing to pay taxes for a school for which he has no use. If education were only government financed, as opposed to being government financed and produced, say through education vouchers, the conflict would be reduced. Both parents could have their wishes fulfilled by enrolling their child in a private school of their choice and instead of being enemies, they could be friends.

This idea is played out here almost daily. The most debated topics - particularly in the Public Policy forum - essentially boil down to whether government will reduce or expand choice on a variety of topics....education, retirement, health care, how much of the "fruit of our labors" we get to keep.

One of our own board members illustrates Williams' point:
Chris wrote:I am a Baptist who has fathered zero children. Yet, I have paid City State and Federal taxes for 55 years to help support a free PUBLIC school system, so all children can have a k-12 education. If you don't like the schools I have provided for you (the most common reason is "they don't teach Adam and Eve") then feel free to go to a private school. But, don't use MY money for this luxury. Use your own.

So here we have someone who supports government mandating that parents educate their children. They provide funding for that education. They mandate almost no choice in educational options and tell you "take it or leave it".

So what if, for instance, I or someone else wants a more advanced coursework. Maybe we would prefer our school to focus more on math and science. Maybe another another group wants their artistic child immersed in a school that heavily focuses on the humanities and arts. Maybe we want to have a prayer and Bible verse read before the day starts. Maybe we would like to mix in Christian church history - or Baptist history - in a world history course. Maybe others do not. Some may desire for creation to be taught alongside evolution, either equally or with one being favored over another. Others may dismiss creationism as "non-scientific" and not teach it. What of the battle for funding so often seen when the arts are often offered up for funding cuts to close budget gaps? The artistic crowd has to battle to keep its coursework instead of losing out to the more-favored STEM subjects.

Chris states that his answer to our requests would be: "If you don't like the schools I have provided for you then feel free to go to a private school. But, don't use MY money for this luxury." I guess he considers anything other than a one-size-fits all educational plan to be a "luxury", so we are left with an educational version of the famous "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld, "NO EDUCATIONAL CHOICE FOR YOU!! NEXT!" Unfortunately for us, the product offered by the "education nazis" doesn't rival the desirability of the soup nazi's soup. :(
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Haruo » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:25 am

When's the last time you heard of beer drinkers in conflict with wine drinkers, or three-piece suit lovers in conflict with lovers of blue jeans? It seldom if ever happens because beer and blue jean lovers get what they want. Wine and three-piece suit lovers get what they want and they all can live in peace with one another.
Yes, but beer and three-piece-suit lovers, and wine and blue jeans lovers, tend to feel lonesome in the crowd.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Haruo » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:27 am

Mi nur opinias, ke ĉiuj la hejmlernejumantaj gepatroj instruu al siaj idoj Esperanton... I just think all the homeschooling parents should teach their kids Esperanto... jam antaŭ la hebrean kaj la grekan... even before Hebrew and Greek...
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Neil Heath » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:13 pm

In our county there is no "one size fits all" version of public schools. There are magnet schools with emphases in different areas, like Math and Science, the Arts, etc. And a thriving private school industry with at least half a dozen options. And we're probably not the only place doing so. I think the stereotype of public schools I see here is becoming more and more inaccurate.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Sandy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:02 pm

http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2 ... diiAmjD_IU

This isn't just a Texas problem, btw.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Dave Roberts » Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:33 pm

Sandy wrote:http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2013-07-06/texas-students-struggle-staar-again-and-again#.UdiiAmjD_IU

This isn't just a Texas problem, btw.


Sounds like a Texas problem to me in that, if you can take the test as many times as you need, the students are not taking it seriously.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Sandy » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:02 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:
Sandy wrote:http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2013-07-06/texas-students-struggle-staar-again-and-again#.UdiiAmjD_IU

This isn't just a Texas problem, btw.


Sounds like a Texas problem to me in that, if you can take the test as many times as you need, the students are not taking it seriously.


If that many students are failing it repeatedly, it's not a motivation problem, especially since passing is required for graduation. Texas isn't the only state with the problem of a high failure rate on a state-based objective test required for graduation. Virtually every state that has adopted Common Core standards, and uses the recommended testing, has the same problem. It is a quality of education issue. You're paying for schools to teach to the test, and so they do that. But that takes away from teaching the core objectives. But you wouldn't put up with that kind of mediocrity in anything else.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Michael Wrenn » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:06 am

Timothy Bonney wrote:
Michael Wrenn wrote:Simply because people want to ignore or deny the Biblical condemnation of sodomy does not change how God views the matter, either. And churches that affirm sodomy have departed the faith and should thus not be considered Christian churches.


Simply because you contend that the Bible condemns homosexuality doesn't mean it does. That's the problem with conservative Christians, you are so darned sure that your interpretation of the Bible is what the Bible says that anyone who disagrees with you is unbiblical.

There is more than one interpretation of what the Bible, particularly Paul is talking about in relationship to sexuality. Equally qualified scholars see Paul talking about pedastry and temple prostitution and not homosexuality as we know it today. They do so from an analysis of the meanings and historic usages of the Koine Greek language that Paul is actually speaking rather than our translations.

By the way Paul also says that people shouldn't marry unless they are burning with passion and are afraid they will take advantage of a young woman. Are we to follow that text literally too or do we read and study to see what Paul's intentions were?

Seeing a different interpretation of scripture is not "ignoring or denying." In fact it can be more faithful than just assuming that what people say about the Bible is true without doing the research and the reading.

We can all play the game "you disagree with my theology therefore you are unbiblical." However, it is a pointless game.


Simply because you deny that the Bible condemns homosexuality doesn't make your denial the truth. But you have to deny it to uphold your cultural relativism. However, the words of scripture are crystal clear.

And I am not "conservative". If you read my website, you would know that. On moral issues, I am traditionalist.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Michael Wrenn » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:11 am

Haruo wrote:I presume (perhaps wrongly) that you are saying I am not a Christian, i.e., that what is true for churches is also true for believers. I am not sure what you mean by "affirm sodomy", but I do gather that you believe that what the King James version of the Bible calls "sodomy" includes what is nowadays called "committed same-sex relationships" or, where local law allows, "same-sex marriages". I think you're wrong (if I'm right in my guess as to how you see the terms), but I wouldn't go so far as to impugn your Christian belief or your salvation.

Board rules are fairly clear on not claiming each other here is not saved. I think. (Been awhile since I actually reviewed the terms.)


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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Timothy Bonney » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:45 am

Michael Wrenn wrote:
Timothy Bonney wrote:
Michael Wrenn wrote:
Simply because you deny that the Bible condemns homosexuality doesn't make your denial the truth. But you have to deny it to uphold your cultural relativism. However, the words of scripture are crystal clear.

And I am not "conservative". If you read my website, you would know that. On moral issues, I am traditionalist.


No it doesn't Michael. But you last statement is just not true. The scriptures are not crystal clear on the issue of homosexuality. They are actually less clear in the original Greek than they are in English. Some of the "clarity" you see is in the choice of translators, some of what you see is in traditional interpretations of texts which often don't get questioned.

From where I'm standing you are a conservative because you are more conservative than most of the Moderate Baptists I know. You can define yourself however you like of course.

When it comes to my theology and my social views I am theologically orthodox and socially liberal because I see a orthodox reading of scripture as leading to the conclusion that Jesus was a social liberal.
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Re: Homeschooling and the SBC

Postby Haruo » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:11 pm

Despite the fact that this topic (the Bible vis-à-vis homosexuality etc.) has been gored to death on BL.com, I still like to rehash it occasionally (partly to see whether anyone has actually thought of anything new to say, and partly to reassure myself that I'm right and they're wrong... er... I mean...). So Michael, if you are not God (and you said you're not; I'll take your word on that point) then how do you know why Timothy denies what you say is the crystal clarity of the scriptures in condemning homosexuality (or homosexual behavior? or men lying with men as with women? or "sodomy" [a translatorial booboo if there ever was one]?)? You say "[Timothy has] to deny it to uphold [his] cultural relativism." Does the Bible clearly condemn what Ruth did with Boaz before they were married? You know, uncovering his feet and all that?

If the words of the scriptures are "crystal clear" on the subject, please cite them, i.e. give, yes, Proof Texts. Which chapters and verses contain this crystal clarity? Or which words, if it's words and not passages you're really referring to?

But please don't answer here. Since this discussion is completely unrelated to "Homeschooling and the SBC", I have created a new thread for it, "Crystal Clarity re Homosexuality?", here; thanks!
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