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The greater truth in this conversation to date lies with BDW. Fundamentalist education just doesn't stack up. It is short on the Enlightenment and in the SBC long on the John Birch Society. See the family history of Paul Pressler, and Chandler Davidson History of W.A. Criswell.

BDW I hope you can get your hands on the Fall Issue of the Furman alum mag 20 years after the break with SBC.

And depending on how serious, just what amount of truth Sandy and Dr. Thornton are interested in on this matter, Jeff Rogers presentation In the early 90's What Really Matters, published by Smyth and Helwys is the definitive essay on this subject. I recommended it to David Rogers several years ago; but I imagine folks like Dave Miller of SBC Voices will go to his grave without ever engaging Jeff Rogers thought.

Pressler's Exxon family of Houston Had also mastered the demagoguery and sinister politics of the John Birch Society and Fireside Chats in his political maneuverings of the SBC. And they would routinely unload the master demagogue Criswell and his sychophants Vines and Adrian Rogers in the Pastor's Conference to get ready for the Presidential votes on Tuesday. The KKK at their best couldn't staged better lynchings than the Pressler and Helms SBC of the 80's.

Is instructive analogy,Sandy for what Pressler did in the SBC.

And there is a Birch component as you might imagine.

As for Chafin, I saw him in Bham April 9th 1987. He said: "A Bible in the hands of a believer who not submit it to rational means of investigation is a dangerous things and has often been used to buttress up injustice"

See Criswell 56 in Columbia S.C.; Pressler, Helms and Albert Lee Smith and the Birch Society; and all on stage 1980 in Dallas with Ed McAteer and Adrian Rogers to introduce the rule of the righteous (lol)

http://fortresspress.com/media/download ... erview.pdf

Lynching an imperfect analogy but ask Randall Lolley and Russell Dilday if they didn't feel lynched by Pressler's hand picked seminary trustees?

See the oft linked harangue of Criswell in 56 and Stewart Newman's response about the blood of many martyrs

And remember had he not been shot in Memphis, the next day April 5, Martin Luther King was to be in Winder Ga at the Cane Creek massacre site.

Instead of needing a "Bible we can control" as Al Mohler said of the HCSB, it sounds like there is a need to be controlled by the Lord of the Bible, not our presuppositions about it.

Keith:

I would say it this way--the TAKEOVER did "kill" many people in SBC life, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Was it really worth it?