The BF&M and Communion

[Tom Parker]

Tim:

I know technically the people who did these hurtful deeds still have a beating hard but it is devoid of any love for someone who is not one of "them." What they had better know is they just might one day be thought of as one of "them" and received the right foot of disfellowship.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tom Parker]

Tim, I think either the forced Exodus or voluntary Exodus of Southern Baptists will continue. Maybe when the older generation of Southern Baptists who I suspect contribute significantly to all of the major SB offerings die then possibly we will see some dramatic effects of the Takeover on the denomination.

[Haruo]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Sandy]

[Tim Bonney]

Yes Sandy I remember the larger mechanism of the committee on committees etc. But the tactic which was used to turn over the leadership of the denomination was clear and no one even on the Takeover side denies that they did it. They will couch it as a "resurgence" but there is plenty of documentation floating around out there to talk about how this happened.

I'm not going to get into it again with you about the merits of the takeover. We are in such different places that it is frankly fruitless.

William and I can usually talk about it until he reaches the point that he gets frustrated with me and yells "Methodist!" in hopes of shutting me down.

For the record, my feelings about the disfunction of the SBC structure long predates my move to the UMC and after I moved to the ABC I couldn't help but scratch my head and wonder why on earth the 2nd largest denomination in the US would want such a non-representative structure.

What I noticed about the ABC is that they were willing to re-examine and restructure fairly often. The SBC seems to move in more of a direction of balkanization rather than innovation. It probably has something to do with their theology and the southern culture which is some what unique to the denomination and is even visible in more northerly SBC churches.

All that being said, I think most denominations (including my own) could improve their structure. The UMC tried to restructure this year at the national level and it just didn't quite get the necessary votes.

[William Thornton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tom Parker]

William:

I have a lot of respect for you but your view of the TAKEOVER just not jive with reality.

Your comment to Tim about being a happy Methodist is in my opinion a very cheap shot. It would be interesting to hear Tim's "movement" to the Methodist, but I am willing to believe there was a lot of heart ache involved.

You and Sandy may believe the Moderates could have done the same thing the FUNDAMENTALIST did to takeover the SBC back again, but that is not the style of moderates, thank the Good Lord! You guys won and all the spoils are yours.

Sadly, the takeover continues as the FUNDAMENTALIST controlling the SBC are never satisfied with its narrowness and look to exclude other folks.

Many seem to rejoice in the TAKEOVER, but from where I sit I can find nothing to rejoice over.

Someone stole the denomination that I had loved for so many years and yet these folks rejoice in the TAKEOVER--I do not get it.

[Tim Bonney]

[William Thornton]

For the record I wrote that Timothy is "happily UMC" a statement that he will verify. He was unhappily Baptist.

[Stephen Fox]

If Thornton thinks the office of President of the SBC is benign, he should go back and read some of the issues of The Southern Baptist Advocate of the mid 80's. Scurrilous material. Godawful...See my post on Focus on the Family and On Being.

[Tom Parker]

[Sandy]

[Tom Parker]

Sandy:

You said to Tim:"If every Southern Baptist who was eligible to be elected by their church went to the convention as a voting messenger, the convention would have over 350,000 messengers. That's more than 20% of the total membership eligible for participation. How much more "representative" could that be? And how would it be possible for a constituency that wasn't in the majority among the grass roots to "take over" the convention? The opposition would have every opportunity to find an almost unlimited group to support their position."

The lengths you go to support the Takeover blows my mind.

Has it ever occurred to you the "opposition" would never wish to be a part of the SBC structure ever again? Many have been told to move on and move on they did.

Also I often wonder how much money the FUNDAMENTALIST paid into the SBC prior to the TAKEOVER, that is support the CP, missions, etc.. My point being they ended up with the whole SBC structure at very little financial cost to them. What a bargain it was to them.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

[Tom Parker]

Tim:

I'm just joking, but maybe Sandy is suggesting a mass busing in of the opposition so they can takeover the takeover.

[Tim Bonney]

[David Flick]