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Timothy Bonney wrote:Northern Baptist Theological in the Chicago area has a conservative reputation as does Palmer in Pennsylvania. As Hauro has mentioned, Rochester, Andover Newton, and Berkley are considered more liberal. Central is pretty middle of the road by reputation.
Ed Pettibone wrote:I am a bit surprised that Tim did not mention that many ABC-USA pastors did not attend any Baptist seminary {1} […] By the way unlike most of the other schools mentioned here ABSW at Berkly's student body is primarily black 72%. {2} However most of the school mentioned do have significant numbers of black students. I have a notion that Berkly's "reputation" come from their location and a strong emphasis on "Liberation Theology" which in my estimation some times gets a bum rap due in part to some of it proponents {3} rather than its content.
Timothy Bonney wrote:Actually I believe I did say so Ed. I said that people tend to go to the seminary they care closest too. That isn't necessarily or even usually an ABC church. I also mentioned that ABC folks are most interested in a mainline seminary. The ABC is just one of the seven sister of the mainline.
Ed Pettibone wrote:Timothy Bonney wrote:Northern Baptist Theological in the Chicago area has a conservative reputation as does Palmer in Pennsylvania. As Hauro has mentioned, Rochester, Andover Newton, and Berkley are considered more liberal. Central is pretty middle of the road by reputation.
Mike Stidham wrote:Ed Pettibone wrote:Timothy Bonney wrote:Northern Baptist Theological in the Chicago area has a conservative reputation as does Palmer in Pennsylvania. As Hauro has mentioned, Rochester, Andover Newton, and Berkley are considered more liberal. Central is pretty middle of the road by reputation.
Any more, Central is a joint ABC/CBF seminary under Dr. Marshall's stewardship.
My pastors (we have a married couple serving) are from Palmer and are very conservative, so I can speak for those two. As for the others, I am new to the ABCUSA and am not sure about the rest.
Ed Pettibone wrote:
Ed: And Mike where would you place Molly on the Liberal, Moderate, Conservative, Fundamentalist Spectrum. Trudy and I used to occasionally visit the Sunday school class that she taught at Deer Park in Louisville. You may know that central was at one time Northern Bapt (ABC) and Southern Baptist prior to the creation of The SBC's Midwestern Seminary in KC in 1957.
I will also point out that most of the So. Bapt. with whom I am acquainted would challenge the idea that a couple sharing a pastorate could be "very" conservative.
Mike Stidham wrote:Ed Pettibone wrote:
Ed: And Mike where would you place Molly on the Liberal, Moderate, Conservative, Fundamentalist Spectrum. Trudy and I used to occasionally visit the Sunday school class that she taught at Deer Park in Louisville. You may know that central was at one time Northern Bapt (ABC) and Southern Baptist prior to the creation of The SBC's Midwestern Seminary in KC in 1957.
I will also point out that most of the So. Bapt. with whom I am acquainted would challenge the idea that a couple sharing a pastorate could be "very" conservative.
Not knowing much about Molly personally, I'm hesitant to place her on the spectrum. I know her only by the character assassination performed upon her as she was leaving Louisville.
And yes, my SBC brethren would have a cow at a married couple co-pastoring for sure. The wife told me that in seminary, they were always trying to get her to read feminist theology to "turn" her. She said, "But all I wanted to do was preach!"
Ed Pettibone wrote:Mike Stidham wrote:Ed Pettibone wrote:
Ed: And Mike where would you place Molly on the Liberal, Moderate, Conservative, Fundamentalist Spectrum. Trudy and I used to occasionally visit the Sunday school class that she taught at Deer Park in Louisville. You may know that central was at one time Northern Bapt (ABC) and Southern Baptist prior to the creation of The SBC's Midwestern Seminary in KC in 1957.
I will also point out that most of the So. Bapt. with whom I am acquainted would challenge the idea that a couple sharing a pastorate could be "very" conservative.
Not knowing much about Molly personally, I'm hesitant to place her on the spectrum. I know her only by the character assassination performed upon her as she was leaving Louisville.
And yes, my SBC brethren would have a cow at a married couple co-pastoring for sure. The wife told me that in seminary, they were always trying to get her to read feminist theology to "turn" her. She said, "But all I wanted to do was preach!"
Ed: Mike when she says "they were always trying to get her to read feminist theology to 'turn' her". Keeping in mind that she was at Palmer what do you understand to be the meaning of, to "turn her" ?
Note; it is a struggle for me not to attempt to answer my own question. What I will say, is that I see Dr. Marshall as a very astute Theologian, who happens to be female but she is not mad about either status. She does when appropriate, display what I see as righteous indignation over how she was treated by those who participated in the "character assassination" that you reference above.
In the context of the conversation, I would say she said it to mean that she had no interest in feminist theology or the assumption that as a woman seminarian, she was presumed to already be a feminist. We were talking about the very liberal theology of the seminary I attend, which is connected with the UCC.
As for Marshall, the way they treated her in Louisville, I wouldn't blame her for any indignation she displays, righteous or otherwise. It was a crying shame what many in the SBC Conservative Resurgence did to people they deemed in the opposition. I appreciate the "attempt to answer your own question" in this case, since it gives me far more context than I had. There were a lot of good, solid people of both genders who suffered at the hands of the CR.
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: Mike when she says "they were always trying to get her to read feminist theology to 'turn' her". Keeping in mind that she was at Palmer what do you understand to be the meaning of, to "turn her" ?
However I found it strange when you wrote of Palmer as being very conservative and then told us about this Female pastor who while a student there, felt that she had been pressured to accept feminist theology, which is generally not considered to be conservative. Or did I misunderstand something?
Mike Stidham wrote:Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: Mike when she says "they were always trying to get her to read feminist theology to 'turn' her". Keeping in mind that she was at Palmer what do you understand to be the meaning of, to "turn her" ?
However I found it strange when you wrote of Palmer as being very conservative and then told us about this Female pastor who while a student there, felt that she had been pressured to accept feminist theology, which is generally not considered to be conservative. Or did I misunderstand something?
Perhaps then my pastors are conservative in SPITE of Palmer!
Ed Pettibone wrote:Mike Stidham wrote:Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: Mike when she says "they were always trying to get her to read feminist theology to 'turn' her". Keeping in mind that she was at Palmer what do you understand to be the meaning of, to "turn her" ?
However I found it strange when you wrote of Palmer as being very conservative and then told us about this Female pastor who while a student there, felt that she had been pressured to accept feminist theology, which is generally not considered to be conservative. Or did I misunderstand something?
Perhaps then my pastors are conservative in SPITE of Palmer!
Ed: Mike,I do believe Palmer and Northern are more Moderate than say Andover Newton and Rochester. Yet I know some pastors who are alumni of all four institutions who do not reflect the schools reputations for Theological positioning. Therefore I can not speak to the positioning your pastors based on a single issue. I know a graduate of Rochester who is the most conservative (close to fundamentalist) ABC pastor with whom I am acquainted. I have known graduates of Northern I consider to be rather Liberal.
Personally I do not consider an aversion to "Feminist Theology" in itself to be "Very conservative" nor do I consider Feminist Theology to be all Liberal, as do some of my conservative friends. When it comes women in ministry I consider my self to be an egalitarian, which many folk do consider liberal, to me that is their problem, unless and until they attempt to force it on me or mine.
Perhaps then my pastors are conservative in SPITE of Palmer!
Well, I'd probably say there's a difference between "egalitarian" (which I have no problems with) and "feminist". Were it not for women pastors, I wouldn't be in seminary today. It's the feminists I've run into here at seminary, who want to place all the ills of the world on the backs of men, that I have trouble with.
Ed Pettibone wrote:
MikeIt's the feminists I've run into here at seminary, who want to place all the ills of the world on the backs of men, that I have trouble with.
Ed:I know Mike, I have also run into that type of Feminist seminarians and pastors, they are the ones I was thinking of when I described what in my view Molly Marshall is and is not by saying "I see Dr. Marshall as a very astute Theologian, who happens to be female but she is not mad about either status". Yet in my experience
not all feminist, nor do all feminist Theologians play the males are to blame for all the ills of the world game.
Ed Pettibone wrote:Ed: I think we are saying essentially the same thing, there are radical feminist and rational feminist.
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