Family Conversation on Immigration

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Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Haruo » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:07 pm

This is what Marcia Patton called a meeting she will be attending in Valley Forge on May 6th.

Here is a document on the subject that is linked to on the ABC website:

Interfaith Platform on Humane Immigration Reform

I'm interested to hear what she will bring back from the meeting.
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Tue May 11, 2010 2:43 pm

Any insight on why National Ministries has gone back to a form of its old name, American Baptist Home Mission Societies?

For those outsiders who are familiar with National Ministries due to their social/political activism and advocacy, the new name would probably be a bit confusing.
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Haruo » Tue May 11, 2010 3:14 pm

Where did you see that? The link I gave is current as nationalministries.org, and the document calls them National Ministries, American Baptist Churches USA. I think "National Ministries" has always been a d/b/a, and they've never stopped being the AB Home Missions Societies, a name and organization which antedates not only the Northern Baptist Convention but, I think, even the SBC, but I see no sign that they have given up the NM label.
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Tim Dahl » Tue May 11, 2010 3:17 pm

It should be really interesting to see what happens.

I find myself at a crossroads. I greatly desire for our laws to be enforced. I also greatly desire for things to be more gracious and merciful. I doubt at times that these things can coexist. I wonder if X-number of years in the military could be a way to "earn" one's lawful right to be here? Maybe give permanent status to anyone willing to put 5+ years into military service. btw, I only read the first couple of pages, before realizing there was 14 of them!

We'll see what happens.

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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Tue May 11, 2010 3:49 pm

Here's the link

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5103/43/

Apparently they are going with Societies plural to honor history, etc.

Could someone describe the purpose of the ABHMS? I would think that most outside observers view National Ministries as sorta similar to the SBC's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission (in the sense that the ERLC is involved in education advocacy and social activism on political/moral issues). I say that because I suspect that most non-ABCers only encounter National Ministries in the political arena where Dr. Aidsand Wright-RIggins has signed a letter to the President or Congress or is out, usually with a coalition of similar denominational organizations, promoting a certain solution to a social problem, etc.

Is the purpose of ABHMS broader than the mission of the ERLC (or old CLC)?
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Ed Pettibone » Tue May 11, 2010 4:41 pm

Tim Dahl wrote:It should be really interesting to see what happens.

I find myself at a crossroads. I greatly desire for our laws to be enforced. I also greatly desire for things to be more gracious and merciful. I doubt at times that these things can coexist. I wonder if X-number of years in the military could be a way to "earn" one's lawful right to be here? Maybe give permanent status to anyone willing to put 5+ years into military service. btw, I only read the first couple of pages, before realizing there was 14 of them!

We'll see what happens.

Tim


ED: Tim with two sons and a grandson in the military, Air Force, Army and Marines, I find it hard to get enthused about such a plan. (Think FT. Hood.)
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Tim Dahl » Tue May 11, 2010 5:24 pm

Ed Pettibone wrote:
Tim Dahl wrote:It should be really interesting to see what happens.

I find myself at a crossroads. I greatly desire for our laws to be enforced. I also greatly desire for things to be more gracious and merciful. I doubt at times that these things can coexist. I wonder if X-number of years in the military could be a way to "earn" one's lawful right to be here? Maybe give permanent status to anyone willing to put 5+ years into military service. btw, I only read the first couple of pages, before realizing there was 14 of them!

We'll see what happens.

Tim


ED: Tim with two sons and a grandson in the military, Air Force, Army and Marines, I find it hard to get enthused about such a plan. (Think FT. Hood.)


This may be bad thinking on my part, but I lump military, police and firefighters into a similar group. These are people, doing a pretty tough job, one that possibly has them doing something very dangerous for my greater good, for a very small wage. If someone is willing to spend a meaningful amount of time being a part of it, for the greater good of the community and for the pauper's salary at that; then I would love to see them given permanent status.

Again, there may be some bad thinking in the midst of that. But, that is currently where I am.

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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Haruo » Tue May 11, 2010 6:32 pm

Ed Pettibone wrote:
Tim Dahl wrote:It should be really interesting to see what happens.

I find myself at a crossroads. I greatly desire for our laws to be enforced. I also greatly desire for things to be more gracious and merciful. I doubt at times that these things can coexist. I wonder if X-number of years in the military could be a way to "earn" one's lawful right to be here? Maybe give permanent status to anyone willing to put 5+ years into military service. btw, I only read the first couple of pages, before realizing there was 14 of them!

We'll see what happens.

Tim


ED: Tim with two sons and a grandson in the military, Air Force, Army and Marines, I find it hard to get enthused about such a plan. (Think FT. Hood.)

I'm sorry, Ed, I find that very offensive. The Fort Hood shooting was done by an American-born US citizen. To allow his behavior to reduce your enthusiasm for those non-US citizens who choose to put themselves at risk on your behalf being given some sort of fast track to citizenship strikes me as really odd and very unAmerican.
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Tue May 11, 2010 6:34 pm

The Department of Homeland Security announced a new ruling earlier in the year that provides legal immigrants who serve in the military a faster path to citizenship. In the past, immigrants serving had to wait three years before seeking citizenship. Now, that wait has been cut to one year.

I would not support a similar path for illegal immigrants. That would create a situation where folks are likely threatened with deportation or military service - kinda coercive. It's great to give incentives to those willing to serve - but national service needs to be voluntary not coercive.

You note that you lump police, military and firefighters together. I see that point. However, do you think a person who is here illegally should be in charge of maintaining law and order as a police officer?
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Tim Dahl » Tue May 11, 2010 9:21 pm

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:The Department of Homeland Security announced a new ruling earlier in the year that provides legal immigrants who serve in the military a faster path to citizenship. In the past, immigrants serving had to wait three years before seeking citizenship. Now, that wait has been cut to one year.

I would not support a similar path for illegal immigrants. That would create a situation where folks are likely threatened with deportation or military service - kinda coercive. It's great to give incentives to those willing to serve - but national service needs to be voluntary not coercive.

You note that you lump police, military and firefighters together. I see that point. However, do you think a person who is here illegally should be in charge of maintaining law and order as a police officer?


No, not really. I lumped them together because they put the person in danger for the benefit of the population. If someone is willing to step in front of a bullet for me, run into a burning building for my family, or fight a war to keep my family free; I'll hold them in great respect.

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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Haruo » Tue May 11, 2010 9:57 pm

John 15:13 and all that. And bearing in mind Romans 5:11.

Any word on what percentage of illegals are numbered among the least of these His brethren? Christians who cavalierly disregard these considerations in favor of political positions, especially while claiming to be "Bible-believing", do not greatly nor favorably impress me.
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Tue May 11, 2010 10:19 pm

We can show love and compassion to "the least of these" and uphold just laws. Unless of course you believe all laws which restrict who can enter our country to be unjust?
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Re: Family Conversation on Immigration

Postby Cathy » Wed May 12, 2010 8:22 pm

Citizenship for service is nothing new. My husband's grandfather got citizenship after serving in the US Army in WWI. At the end of the war he went home to Italy married his longtime sweetheart and returned to the US alone. After he received his citizenship he brought his wife and then 2 year old son to the US.

I have seen that some non-citizens have died in the service of the US in Iraq prior to receiving citizenship. Recruitment into the military has been aided by our unemployment statistics whether a citizen or not. This pathway to citizenship is no more coercive than our recent economic conditions.

A friend's father joined the Canadian military prior to our entry into WWII. He was under the conviction that it was a just cause and chose to serve. He was eventually offered the opportunity to transfer into the US military. He stuck with the Canadians through the war and then returned to the US to live and work.
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