NM's Curtis Ramsey-Lucas: put tobacco under FDA oversight

[Haruo]

[Ed Pettibone]

Tim writes in part "Several faith groups who are supporting legislation to have tobacco regulated by the FDA are having a press conference in Des Moines next Tuesday at noon at Grace United Methodist Church. It is sponsored by http://faithunitedagainsttobacco.org/. I am going to be speaking at the press conference in support of the legislation. :

Ed: TIm I am curious, are you the only pastor in ABC-USA who is aboard on this campaign, that is what the "full story" that Haruo linked to seems to indicate. That would be a real disappointment.

On the other hand, for sake of discussion; While I do not oppose such legislation, I do question whether or not it can deliver what it seems to promise. I also wonder with the belt tightening in government, if this is the best time time to burden the FDA with a greater work load? And what impact might probable lay offs in the tobacco industry have on the economy, particurly in areas of the Southeast such as, Raleigh Durham, Winston Salem and Louisville?

BTW, I quit smoking about 7 years ago and my stock holdings include no tobacco related companies, nor am I related to any one at any level of the industry any longer. And I do thank Haruo and Tim for bringing this to the attention of all here.

[Ed Pettibone]

Tim writes in part: "As to cost the legislation has built in means for paying for the additional oversight. Additionally, tobacco smoking is costing the government and healthcare system millions of dollars. We regulate the macaroni and cheese that our kids eat yet we let tobacco companies target young people with advertising and have no real controls over the content of cigarettes, etc. You may know already but, it is kind of shocking just to read the byproducts that are in cigarettes besides the tobacco etc."

Ed: As I have said I have no opposition to the legislation but I do question the timing and the cost for result value. Shure the legislation has built in means for paying for the additional oversight. but where is that money coming from. Tim Adds "We regulate the macaroni and cheese that our kids eat yet we let tobacco companies target young people with advertising and have no real controls over the content of cigarettes," And to that I reply and the FDA was supposedly regulating peanut butter. How did they explain deaths connected to it, not enough staff. More kids eat peanut butter than smoke. Yea I know about the by products, not sure what is "shoking "about them, I took a little chemistry in HS. I smoked for most of 50 years 17 to 67 . Quit off and on for as much as a year or two at a time. And it probably accounts for some current medical conditions but then I never had to take tranquilizers either. Legitimate trade off ? I have to admit I do not know much about Tobacco advertising these days. I know they don't have it on TV any more. And New made for TV movies are alllowed to show all sorts of sexual content straight and gay, up to, actual intercourse. But they can't show any one smoking. And then How often have you heard any one recently quote any figures about a states income from Tobacco tax. Only pointing out their is usually two sides to any story.

[Big Daddy Weaver]

It's good to see progressive Baptists like Tim Bonney doing the advocacy leg-work at the grassroots level.

Unfortunately, if the legislation passes, Dick Land will have his face in front of a camera on Capitol Hill taking as much credit as possible. Over the past couple of years, Land has been one of the spokesmen (along with Ted Kennedy) for Faith United Against Tobacco. I have wondered though how active the Southern Baptist Convention is - at the grassroots level - in FUAT. Too many chain-smoking old Southern Baptists to actually practice what their string of Resolutions actually preach. I suspect that the member bodies of the National Council of Churches (like National Ministries of ABC-USA, UMC, etc.) and the Reform Jews have been the driving force behind this particular effort.

Land is just symbolic of a right-winger willing to partner with liberals, although this issue is perhaps the only issue on which Land is willing to cross the aisle and coalition with these days.

[Ed Pettibone]

A.W. Baylor Ph.D Student, writes in Part I suspect that the member bodies of the National Council of Churches (like National Ministries of ABC-USA, UMC, etc.) and the Reform Jews have been the driving force behind this particular effort.

Ed: Aaron, I am happy to say that ABC-USA is one of the Member Bodies of the NCC which is a
driving force behind this movement. However National ministries is a sub group of ABC-USA, not in itself a member body of the NCC ;

See this List: http://www.ncccusa.org/members/index.html


I also suspect that there are an number of denomination which are not NCC members that are very supportive of this legislation

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Ed,

Having presented a seminar paper that dealt with ABC-USA and having just presented a separate seminar paper that dealt with the NCC and the African-American denominations that are members of the NCC, I'm quite aware that National Ministries is not a member of the National Council of Churches.

Maybe I did not make that clear above but I did refer to the "National Ministries OF ABC-USA." When it comes to addressing social issues, it is primarily folks from National Ministries that relates to the NCC staff on behalf of ABC-USA. Thus, that's why I used the phrase above...no misunderstanding.

I will be discussing the environmental resolutions/policy statements of ABC-USA as part of a panel at the upcoming Christian Scholars Forum at Baylor University in a few weeks. I'm presenting a paper that deals with the Church-State contributions of former Northern Baptist Convention President Charles Evans Hughes at a Social Science conference in Denver on Good Friday. And, I'm currently exploring the possibility of writing my dissertation on the topic of Baptists and Environmental Justice - which would most certainly include a focus on ABC-USA and various grassroots American Baptist/Progressive Baptist (PNBC) leaders. As far as my areas of research go, I'm trying to move away from the Southern Baptist Convention and focus more on American Baptists and various African-American Baptist denominations. Time to begin that dissertation prospectus is quickly approaching...

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

[Big Daddy Weaver]

Ed,

Again, I did not suggest that National Ministries is a member body of the National Council of Churches.

Thanks for the effort to insult me.

I'll be sure to pass your advice/criticism of young scholars and the academy on to my professor in the Protestant Reformation course I'm in. After hearing your wise words, perhaps he'll understand why I am no longer equipped to write my paper about Thomas Helwys. Or maybe you know of a good, affordable time travel option so that I can travel back to the late 16th/early 17th century to get some of that necessary "hands on experience"!!

As the son of a Baptist historian, I get free professional advice and expertise on every Baptist-related topic that I choose to examine. Although, I'm not sure that my dad had that necessary "hands-on-experience" that you speak of while at Southern. He did pastor a small American Baptist church in Indiana while a student, I believe. Maybe that's sufficient "hands on experience" to advise me on American Baptist history. My gosh.

Do some research on how the NCC relates to its member bodies including ABC-USA and please report back. You spend so much of your time here, it seems, asking other to do stuff, "clarify this" "what did you mean by that" etc.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

Cigarettes are heavily regulated by the feds and by many states and even local jurisdictions. The HHS oversight that RJR refers to in the page Ed linked does occur, and might partially overlap what it is being contemplated that the FDA should do. I wonder, if "HHS is required, in turn, to submit reports advising Congress of any information pertaining to any such ingredient "which in the judgment of the Secretary poses a health risk to cigarette smokers", whether they routinely send Congress a report warning that cigarettes have been found to contain tobacco?

Has there been any research into the effects of restricting tobacco availability on crime rates? If tobacco becomes available legally only by prescription, will smokers then be able to sue their doctors because the latter prescribed a harmful substance?

Here in Washington, the state health department spends a lot of energy and money (not taxpayer money; this funding comes from the tobacco industry through a settlement our AG, now governor, made some years back) making stupid TV ads that are superficially anti-tobacco, but that many teens find glamorous and an inducement to smoke. I know because our office does the data collection for the survey that tracks the effectiveness of the ads. We call 10-to-17-year-olds and ask them if they've seen the ads and if so what they think of them. The 10- and 11-year-olds are almost all IMHO incapable of adequately understanding the questions, so the data isn't great from them, but I wonder about the implied "you should dislike your parents and want to get away from them because they smoke" message implicit in some of the questions we ask in this survey. I should make it clear that we only interview minors with their parents' prior consent, assuming that whoever gave the consent (taken over the phone with no ID) wasn't lying about being the parent...

[Ed Pettibone]

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: Thanks for the correction on the length of Virginia Slims. I guess maybe I had repressed some things about cigarettes.. For the last 10 years that I smoked it was what ever was cheapest. And a doctor had said he would not tell me to stop but that I should change brands frequently.

When I got ready to quit I found it easier if I kept an un-opend pack with me.

[Haruo]

[Haruo]

And Silk Cut. Of course, I started out as a pipe smoker, it took several months for me to switch (for convenience) primarily to cigarettes. And I used snuff; never chew (tried it but yuck). Smoked marijuana constantly for a week, then hardly ever thereafter. In high school I used to smoke tea and oregano and whatnot (I wasn't a tobacco smoker in those days) in hopes of being falsely accused by campus cops of smoking pot. (This was generally on college campuses I visited as a member of the Debate Team.)

[Ed Pettibone]

Ed: I don't know if I can explain the Doc's rational for switching brands; but it seems that because different brands used different ingredients that caused different sorts of irritation to areas of the nose throat and lungs, switching allegedly allowed one irritated area to heal while some other area was being hit, and on and on. I can be no more specific. My favorite was Marlboro. And Haruo after your confession it will probably sounf mild for me to repeat what I have said at another time in another thread about when I lived in Cinci and worked in Larwenceburg Indiana, I bought my booze in Indiana, My Gasoline in Ohio and My Cigarettes in Northern Kentucky, either on my way to work or on the way home. I had quit drinking long before Trudy and I met but I was still smoking when we moved to Cinci and while we lived there and until I gave up Cigarettes I saved money eve counting, gasoline and wear and tear by driving across the river to Newport, Ky., for three or four cartons at least once a month. I developed a miserable cold and they plain did not taste good for about ten days. When the cold let up I had just two pack in my last carton. I carried one of those packs for several days unopened, and eventually gave both packs to a fellow who did some yard work for us. If that where to day I would just toss them in the garbage.

[Haruo]

And I didn't even get into the details on Balkan Sobranies...

[Haruo]

Mrs Haruo found this on Pundit Kitchen: