by Ed Pettibone » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:16 pm
Ed; As I have said on more than one occasion I highly dislike the format of these boards for trying to carry on a conversation.
At this point I have no more to say about the ABCOTS per se , however In looking back over this thread I find several points to quibble with.
In Haruos first post of the thread he says "In a thread focusing on the future of the CBF over at the Baptist Faith and Practice Forum, Ed brought up the issue of the southernness of CBF, generally speaking, and I countered with the existence of ABCOTS, and it went from there."
A. Now I would like to know where Haruo heard me/saw me bring up an "issue of the "southerness of CBF" in that thread?
B. He denies his prominence in the Evergreen Association.
Ed: I will admit I have no real knowledge of that.
C. He writes "Anyhow, aside from the Utah and Idaho churches, and the now sadly, apparently, defunct Pullman church, I don't know of any churches we have taken in from outside our charter area (namely, the Seattle Baptist Union boundaries, which basically means King and southern Snohomish counties) that the Regions those churches were previously associated with wanted to keep--we haven't gone fishing for converts--
Ed: But then the Evergreen website list not only Utah and Idaho out side of the Greater Seattle/ Washington State area but also California and Alaska also.
D. Hauro then poses a question to me " if you had an AWAB church in your region you'd probably be relieved if they decided to switch to Rochester/Genesee or Metro NYC, wouldn't you?
Ed: We do in fact have some (note the plural. I am not sure how many). Nor do I know exactly how any of them define their AWBA position. If in fact they claim that homosexuality is normal and that Gays and Lesbians are welcome into full membership, I would say as I said from the platform in Denver. " I would prefer to see them re-examine their position and bring it more in line with the majority of ABC Churches OR leave the ABC-USA and become insependents, join some other group or, start their own Baptist denomination. Their switching to Rochester/Genesee or Metro NYC, would be in my opinion more legitimate that what evergreen and R/G have done. I say that because in my understanding even before sexual orientation became an issue ABC regions accepted churches from contiguous geographic regions on a regular basis. Both METRO NYC and Rochester/Genesee are contiguous to our region which is ABCNYS .
E1. Haruo goes on " One of our recent "acquisitions", in Tacoma, as I understand it, left ABCNW for Evergreen because the former was attempting to dictate whom they could hire as Music Minister. Do you think Regions should have that sort of dictatorial power, or should even want it, the way the SBC apparently wants to say whom Broadway can have on its committees?
Ed: Haruo as you should know by now I believe the reasons any Baptist entity wants to disassociate from some part, needs to be judged on a case by case basis. And while I freely give opinions on what the SBC and SBC churches do based on my 40 plus year affiliation with them, I see no parallel in what the SBC does and what an ABC region does. If you want to discuss what an SBC State convention does as compared directly to an ABC-USA Region I may give it a shot. And I will not comment directly to your question as it relates to ABCNW and the church in Tacoma with out more information such as, exactly what you mean by "attempting to dictate whom they could hire".
F. And ABCNW has churches within the SBU "turf", too, including some that we are in friendly relations with, including Chinese Baptist and Queen Anne Baptist (Fremont's nearest neighbor, as the crow flies). So the trespass is mutual. There is no reason I can see why Regions should have turfs; Regions should consist of churches that are ready to work together in their shared ministries and respect each other in their separate ministries. IMO.
Ed: I have no idea what the SBU tuff refers to.
And by definition region has to do with turffs ; Wiki; Region is a geographical term.