by pastormikejordan » Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:26 pm
OK, Tim et al. I watched with amusement (bemusement?) all the thread drift in the last thread about the membership losses.
Noticed in the original article I posted that one of the commentors has clarified: the 2007 book used 2004 statistics, while the 2008 book used 2006 statistics. Thus, it seems impossible that the decrease reflects any PSW pullout, as that was more recent than that.
I'm not necessarily siding with Ed, here, Tim, but I'm not sure why his posting about the GB causing a "national quagmire" is so offensive as to be off-limits. You may understand the current situation one way, and I may understand it quite another, and even Ed in a third way. While Ed's idea is not convincing to me, it is not any more simplistic an idea than insisting that the other side insisted on creedalism and then stomped out when they didn't get their way. Could it be there's more to the story than simply one side or the other causing the mayhem?
Ed's suggestion that the ABC has not done a good job creating an identity also merits closer attention than you're giving it, methinks. I am paraphrasing here, but one of Ed's ideas essentially was when people move out of small towns, as they do these days, they don't necessarily seek out another ABC church. That is at least interesting, isn't it? Just hypothesizing here, but if people are indeed moving from rural to suburban/exurban areas, then perhaps the suburban/exurban ABC churches differ enough from rural churches to not be attractive to those moving in. If ABC identity means one thing in one place, and quite another in another, people can be forgiven for not forming a life-long relationship with the ABC when they move around.
Further, I'm not sure the "small-town" explanation is the best one. The denominations in steepest decline: ECUSA, PCUSA, ABCUSA, ELCA, UMC (in that order, percentage-wise). They would seem to me to have more in common than being located in shrinking small towns. They may be the churches that keep the best or most honest records, or it may be a recognition of the failure of mainline Christianity to develop compelling ministries and mission as they liberalize.
I'm sure you know my general opinion on this--if the ABC is in general about rejecting all theological boundaries as creedalism, it's going to be difficult going to maintain any interest in the ABC as people become more transient.
I pastor in an extremely transient area--people move in and out all the time, and there are many apartment complexes, etc. in town. There are probably 20 or so people who came into the church in the last five years who have already moved on. No matter where they're moving--Texas, West Virginia, Massachusetts, NY, Indiana--I never recommend they look for another ABC church. Why would I? I tell them to find a church where the Bible is honored above all books but not interpreted in a fundamentalist way, to find a place where tradition is honored but is not a cage, to find a place where they can serve God and others. To put it bluntly, if we are all about autonomy and not mutual submission, I have no assurances those things will happen in an ABC church, and neither do my people. They may happen in an ABC church, they may not, but there's no way I could tell them in good conscience simply to check the website, find a local ABC church and get there.
Please understand I raise this criticism in order to be constructive. I actually would like to be wrong on this. I would like to hear a convincing argument that this is not the case, that it really is due to shrinking small towns or irreligiosity on the part of thirtysomethings these days. But my gut--and the fact it is a "mainline malady"--tells me that it has more to do with the need to be comprehensive, "inclusive" enough that eventually it doesn't mean anything to belong. Please tell me if it's something different--please, please raise a compelling case, or at least points to discuss. My view--because I love the ABC, not because I am a fundamentalist hell-bent on destroying it--is that some minimal theological boundaries are necessary to lend some shape to our identity as a people.
Tim if you feel there is no good conversation to be had here, then you certainly can feel free to lock this. Please know I'm not trying to be destructive but constructive by raising these issues. I will try to be a more active part in the discussion, and I didn't mean to "hit and run" last time. In the last thread, I just wanted to hear from a few folks to gauge what they thought were reasons. But I will be glad to be more involved in a discussion about this. I as always try to be open to all evidence, not just that which supports my theory, so fire away...
Mike
Michael Jordan
Exton, PA
pastormikejordan.blogspot.com