Biblical Baptist

Open discussion on general Baptist-related topics of interest to Baptists around the world.

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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby T. D. Webb » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:48 am

Abel wrote:I am through with you Bruce. Your unchristian attitude towards me has been distasteful from your opening post. I do not appreciate it. Instead of proper Bible discussion, you resort to cheap ad hominem insults. You claim the Bible contains errors and contradictions, yet you have the gall to say I am a Bible-abuser.

When I PM’d you and asked for you to show respect, I should have known the type of person you really were when you told me the only reason I was in your “digital living room” was by your permission and if I couldn’t handle the heat I should go play somewhere else. Not one time have you displayed Christian charity towards me.

I refuse to lower myself to you tactics. Hopefully others here will see your true colours. Go ahead and claim your victory. I’m sure you are proud of yourself for offending a Christian brother, if indeed you are a Christian. I am shaking the dust of BL off my feet.


Your "foot dust" may have already settled, Abel (that is, if you are still reading posts at BAPTISTLIFE.COM). By now, you likely understand that this message board is owned, administered, and frequented for the most part by folks who claim to be "moderates" when it comes to Baptist doctrines, but who, in my Constitutionally protected opinion, best fit the description of being postmodernistic, relativistic, and (Do I dare say it? :o ) liberal when it comes to interpreting Scripture and Christian doctrine. In these folks eyes, Abel, you are a "fundamentalist", theologically speaking; and, you should understand that the folks with whom you are dialoging here have a curiously fundamental aversion to views (and, on occasion, to those who assert them) which they deem to be "fundamentalist".

That said, several members who post here are generally decent, cordial, and usually hospitable people who, some years ago, had negative experiences with the Southern Baptist Convention; and were subsequently forced out of the SBC, or left the SBC because they held minority views on Southern Baptist doctrines, and/or succumbed to the "religious politics" of the leadership majority in the SBC.

While I take strong personal exception to many of the views asserted here, it is well beyond my "pay grade" to be judgmental regarding another's standing as a Christian. Moreover, my own life is rife with examples of how NOT to represent my Christian faith. How hypocritical would it be then for me to condemn a person who professes faith in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior? . . . especially over "non-essential" (to salvation) doctrines.

In His Grace and Peace,
T. D. Webb

"The first to plead his case seems right, until another comes and examines him." (Proverbs 18:17)
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:48 am

Calling someone a Fundamentalist or Liberal is like the "Establishment" calling those bearded rebels of the 60's "Radicals."

The meaning has as its basis: "Roots."

To the Fundamentalist / Conservative I ask: "Conserve what?"

To the Liberal I say: "Keep on asking questions rather than settle for 'that's the way we have always done it!'" :)
Last edited by Gene Scarborough on Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NT Wright for TD Webb

Postby Stephen Fox » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:30 pm

What was it Adrian Rogers said about the vocabulary and the dictionary?

TD you have been kind and gracious in almost every if not every exchange we have had. But I am afraid you are out to lunch on this one.
My FAther and Mother were not postmodernists, but Momma had the good sense to walk out on Jerry Vines Sermon where he demagogged SEBTS.

Read the sermons of Peter Gomes, Fleming Rutledge. Read N.T. Wright a favorite of Christianity Today. Go back and read the Proceedings of the Inerrancy Consortium at Ridgecrest in 87.
The fundies get their butt kicks at every turn and then resort to whining with a bad dictionary.

I've seen it with my own eyes

Look at the WMU Inquisition by Don Purvis and other FMB trustees in 93. I saw that one on video.
Your boys called Keith Parks a Liberal. How Ridiculous. Anybody who disagreed with the Takeover got tagged a Liberal. Witness the assault by Lee Roberts and Jesse Helms operatives.

It was an insult to Jesus
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:55 pm

Stephen---RIGHT ON, MY BROTHER---RIGHT ON!!!!! :D

Somebody needs to listen and realize we aren't kidding. The battle is over / there are far better things to do / if one red cent of my giving goes to the SBC ever in the future---they will know hell has frozen over! :lol:
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Timothy Bonney » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:50 pm

I personally think that the two of you, Gene and Stephen, over reacted to the use of TD's word "liberal." Certainly from his perspective pretty far to the right nearly everyone around here looks like a liberal even if it just isn't so. But I believe that his note was well intended and cordial. The both of you reacted to the word "liberal" as if TD has set fire to your shoes. :lol:
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Re: NT Wright for TD Webb

Postby T. D. Webb » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:59 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:TD you have been kind and gracious in almost every if not every exchange we have had. But I am afraid you are out to lunch on this one.
My FAther and Mother were not postmodernists, but Momma had the good sense to walk out on Jerry Vines Sermon where he demagogged SEBTS.


Stephen, thanks for making my point in your post, though I am not certain you fully understand the purpose, much less the content of my comments to Abel. By the way, lunch was great, though all of it was consumed here at my home. :wink: That said,I don't recall reading any posts on this message board written by your father. . .or your mother. Therefore, I haven't a clue as to whether they were/are postmodernists, etc. Why don't we leave our parents out of this discussion for the time being, what do you say?

Nevertheless, from my perspective, the dominant discussions posted on this forum have much less to say about the historic roots and tenets of the Baptist faith than they do about fueling and furthering Baptist political strife, and on occasion treating "fundie" targets with condescension, derision and supercilious arrogance. . . just as if the latter were enemies of Christ. Curiously, it is rare that one sees such verbal venom spewed on avowed enemies of the Christian faith (not that I would endorse that approach for anyone, much less a fellow Christian), such as atheists, cults portraying themselves as the true Christian organizations, and radical Islam, for example. This is not to say that certain Southern Baptist Resurgent leaders don't justly deserve criticism for deeds referenced here. They most likely do. May I submit that few, if any, of us is guiltless in our words and deeds concerning this issue. However, one wonders when the rant of personal attacks will cease and desist? Or, do we subscribe to the attitude of those who are adamant that a certain place of eternal perdition will "freeze over" before we will be willing to reconcile our differences as brothers and sisters in Christ and move on . . .?

Stephen Fox wrote:Read the sermons of Peter Gomes, Fleming Rutledge. Read N.T. Wright a favorite of Christianity Today. Go back and read the Proceedings of the Inerrancy Consortium at Ridgecrest in 87.
The fundies get their butt kicks at every turn and then resort to whining with a bad dictionary.


Stephen, thanks for the reading recommendations. That said, may I take the risk of commending some literature (most of which I have read in the past year) for you to read, as well, in the coming year? The only caveat of warning I would offer is that only a few of the suggested volumes are illustrated with pictures; and, none of them (as you are likely to guess) come furnished with a box of Crayolas. :wink: In any case, here they are: Putting Jesus in His Place: The Case for the Deity of Christ by Robert M. Bowman, Jr. and J. Ed Komoszewski; Systematic Theology: An Introduction to Biblical Doctrine and Love Your God with All Your Mind, both by J.P. Moreland; No One Like Him by John S. Feinberg; The Resurrection of Jesus: A New Historiographical Approach by Michael R. Licona . . .and there are several very trustworthy books collated into one monumental volume which are asserted to be (on Good Authority) the inspired Word of God, which just might be the ticket for a professing Christian to prioritize in setting up his reading schedule for the coming year. :) Stephen, may our Lord richly bless you and yours with a happy and joyous New Year!

In His Grace and Peace,
Last edited by T. D. Webb on Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby T. D. Webb » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:09 pm

Tim Bonney wrote:I personally think that the two of you, Gene and Stephen, over reacted to the use of TD's word "liberal." Certainly from his perspective pretty far to the right nearly everyone around here looks like a liberal even if it just isn't so. But I believe that his note was well intended and cordial. The both of you reacted to the word "liberal" as if TD has set fire to your shoes. :lol:


Tim, if I am ever in need of a defense attorney, you will likely be at the top of my list. :D By the way, (and please excuse the off-topic comments that follow) your Hawkeyes very nearly finished the job of messing up my Sooners' football season last night (and early this morning). Iowa acquitted themselves quite well, and almost repeated the comeback that they had accomplished earlier in the season. You are probably aware that Bob Stoops (a University of Iowa alumnae) continues to be an avid Iowa Hawkeye fan and supporter.

Happy New Year and I wish you well in your association with the United Methodists!

In His Grace and Peace,
T. D. Webb

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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Timothy Bonney » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:50 pm

T. D. Webb wrote:

Happy New Year and I wish you well in your association with the United Methodists!

In His Grace and Peace,


Thank you T. D.! My daughter is a junior at Iowa State University. For football fans their earlier win with an OK team was the highlight of their year. :D

I hope you and your family have a Blessed New Year as well!
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:19 am

Here is why I have a problem with the CR folks = Phariseism.

Paraphrase of Matthew 23:1-36

The Pattersonites and Presslerites control the SBC so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They make many rules and narrow theologies, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not live personal lives under them.

They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their designer ties bright and their expensive tailored suits sharp, and they love the place of honor at all Pastor’s Conferences. They love being recognized and called “Dr.” by their subservient masses. But you are all the same as Baptists: you have one master, Jesus, and one Father who is God in heaven. Neither be called President or Vice-President, for you have one master, the Christ... But woe to you, dictators to Baptists, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who follow you to go in.

You go on glorious and expensive overseas mission trips to make a single proselyte and then corrupt him. You make all kinds of Resolutions and use Robert’s Rules of Order in any way to get your way. You don’t care what promises you make or public statements as long as you sound politically correct. Your sermons are slick and designed to please men. You neglect the Gospels and the ideas of God’s love and forgiveness, replacing them with legalisms and judgmentalism to make sinful men feel worse.

You blind guides, straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel! Woe to you dictator pastors! You are like dishes and cups cleaned only on the outside while the inside is full of rotting food and disease. First cleanse the inside and the outside will clean itself. You take statements out of context from Baptist forefathers and act as if they applaud your mindless theology. You say you would love what the forefathers died for, but you take away the freedoms for which they would give their life. They went to jail and endured punishment so we could live in a land of freedom of religion and conscience. You would have been in the mobs which booed them and threw them in prison. You would have shot them rather than listen to their cries for freedom of individual churches and believers.

Many Baptists are saying we have deserted our heritage of freedom in recent years, but you call them “skunks” and “liberals” to anyone who doesn’t know what being free and Baptist means. The hottest fires of Hell wait for those who do not live in love and allow their brothers in the faith to be free. Anyone who claims to serve a God of love, but cannot love his brother who is different or uses different words, is a liar and a hypocrite destined for God’s harshest judgment.

Rev. Gene Scarborough
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Sandy » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:23 am

All you have in your paraphrase there, Gene, is your own speculation and observation. Essentially, when it comes to the leadership of the SBC, you are dong exactly what you accuse them of doing. You make an accusation that has no substantiation. How do you know that the sermon that someone preaches is designed to be slick and please men?

Your buds that ran the SBC before the resurgence took over protected the high salaried jobs for each other and treated the denominational budget like it was some kind of personal entitlement.
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:42 am

Let he who has eyes see and he who has ears listen, Sandy!!!!

No matter who the Pharisee is, Jesus had problems with the outlook and lack of sincerity---for them it was all about money and control------not part of "servant ministry" I witnessed pre-1979.
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby John Sneed » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:24 pm

360 posts? Really? All that just to tell Abel you don't like what he believes? I suspect that poor dead horse has been beaten so badly that even the crew of CSI Las Vegas couldn't figure that crime scene out.
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Timothy Bonney » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:26 pm

John Sneed wrote:360 posts? Really? All that just to tell Abel you don't like what he believes? I suspect that poor dead horse has been beaten so badly that even the crew of CSI Las Vegas couldn't figure that crime scene out.


John, I suspect that people have long moved passed Abel. This forum is the leader in thread drift.
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:37 am

I'm often reminded of Dr. Eric Rust's comment that we all are like the old mule who wore blinders so he could be directed straight ahead. He reminded all of his students that we all wear blinders. Rust said that the purpose of education was to be able to recognize our blinders so we understood our own perspectives. This lengthy discussion has certainly been a reminder of that. The good part is that some of us recognize our blinders. Others however do not. (Of course, I don't have any blind spots :lol: . Only other people have them.)
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Timothy Bonney » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:51 am

Dave Roberts wrote:I'm often reminded of Dr. Eric Rust's comment that we all are like the old mule who wore blinders so he could be directed straight ahead. He reminded all of his students that we all wear blinders. Rust said that the purpose of education was to be able to recognize our blinders so we understood our own perspectives. This lengthy discussion has certainly been a reminder of that. The good part is that some of us recognize our blinders. Others however do not. (Of course, I don't have any blind spots :lol: . Only other people have them.)


I had Dr. Rust at SBTS the year I was there. It was quite an experience.
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Re: Biblical Baptist

Postby Gene Scarborough » Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:30 pm

When you learn of your own stupidity----and can laugh at such----there is hope for you!!!! :wink:
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