Biblical Baptist

[Tim Bonney]

More on UMC history:

The first woman was licensed to preach in the Methodist Episcopal Church in 1866.
The first ordination of women in the Methodist Episcopal Church was in 1880.

Just so you know the Methodist Episcopal Church was founded in 1784.

There were splits into the Methodist Episcopal Church, the Methodist Episcopal Church, south, and the Protestant Methodist Church which was healed with a merger of the three denominations in 1939 into the "Methodist Church."

The Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren merged in 1968 to form the UMC.

[Abel]

[Haruo]

[Tim Bonney]

[Abel]

[Dave Roberts]

Abel, you need to do a little reading on the Sandy Creek movement which spawned most evangelical Baptist groups. One of the key preachers there alongside Shubal Stearns was his sister Martha--in the early Baptist spread into the Carolinas. Check your history on this.

[Abel]

[Dave Roberts]

[Tim Bonney]

[Gene Scarborough]

I think a key component missing in Abel's outlook is the working of the Holy Spirit to lead us in the here and now.

When one sees through the technical details to the spirit of Christ, then we have a living and breathing religion!

In a day where women were considered nothing more than a possession of men, Jesus invited them to join his circle and gave them recognition and place. It was the women who left their hiding place and went boldly to anoint the body of their leader. The men just knew he was gone and it was over. The women NEVER gave up and were rewarded as the first messengers of a risen Lord!

Yet, we dare to say they have no right to being ordained or leading except under men. I don't think so in the spirit of Christ!

[Abel]

You are correct Tim, the meaning must be determined by context. The context does not indicate Phebe (correct spelling as per my Bible) held the office of deacon especially in light of other scriptures. As I have previously pointed out the majority of translators indicate she was a servant and did not hold the office of deacon. I am not discrediting Pricilla either, but the Bible does not suggest she was a pastor/bishop/elder.

BTW, the first Baptist was John...and he immersed

[Tim Bonney]

[Abel]

Here is the only two verses that references your premise:
1 Corinthians 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
Romans 16:3-5 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. Likewise greet the church that is in their house…

It just says they held church meetings in their house, not that they were pastors. You are making an assumption that is not indicated.

[Tim Bonney]

[Abel]

You're right Tim, it is my opinion. And I feel I have Biblical support for my opinion. To me, there is not even the slightest question concerning women in the ministry. You do not see things the way I do. I understand that and believe that you are completely entitled to hold whatever opinion you desire. Your move to UMC was probably best for you. You believe your position is correct, I believe mine is correct. We can continue to debate this until the Lord comes back, but I doubt either of us will budge in our doctrine.

[Tim Bonney]

[Abel]

Does proper theology depend on a majority of support? If that be the case, Jesus' theology could be considered in error. He was in the minority when He preached. Paul was also in the miniority of religious thought. Actually, being in the minority sounds like a good thing.

BTW, I align myself with a church based on its teaching not on its association. Just because I attend an IFB now does not means I agree with the teachings of all IFB. Same with SBC. I served as interim pastor 8 months for an SBC. There are Biblically sound SBC and IFB churches as well as unsound SBC and IFB churches.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Haruo]

[Hal Eaton]

I still have not taken the time to read all the posts on this thread - - - but I, like the rest of you-all, would not be persuaded to change my thinking because of you-all's reasoning (oops, bad word for inerrantists).

One observation: Regarding the Biblical evidence for proving that God made everything perfect: We will eventually arrive at the basic question: Did Adam get created with or without a belly button?

If'n he had one, then God created something useless. If'n he didn't, then God created a less-than-perfect human . . .

This question was (mis-)handled by Congress on one occasion.

[Abel]

What is your basis for claiming a person without a belly-buttom is less than perfect?

[Hal Eaton]

[Hal Eaton]

[Tim Bonney]

[Abel]