Bonhoeffer in Alabama/Niebuhr on W43

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Bonhoeffer in Alabama/Niebuhr on W43

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:27 pm

http://tinyurl.com/3xgcv7n

Charles Marsh's remarkable lecture in Berlin in March of this year,2010, has Dietrich traveling through Alabama on HWY 11. Marsh references the trip about the 40 minute mark of the lecture linked above.
If DB was on HWY 11 all the way through from Laurel, Miss through Meridian up to Chattanooga on return trip from out west, Mexico to Laredo to New Orleans then he did indeed pass with 20 yards of my Mother's front porch
Of the many divine sparks in my ancestry that is certainly of the highest eschelon if it turns out to in fact be the case.

Bonhoeffer returned through Alabama during the month of what what was to become the internationally famous case of the Scottsboro Boys.

But all that is small potatoes indeed in this magnificent, magisterial lecture by Charles Marsh whose biography of Bonhoeffer will be published by Knopf later this year.
The grand lecture linked above weaves Bonhoeffer's stay in America and his studies at Union and worship in Harlem into the Civil Rights movement that was to become of the lineage in many integral ways Bonhoeffer's visit.
Listen to part of the Testament of the Spirit of Jesus as it worked in the profoundest of ways in Bonhoeffer's life and might have actually passed the front door of my own Sainted Mother.
Last edited by Stephen Fox on Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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US 11

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:02 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_11#Alabama

In his Berlin lecture, Charles Marsh says DB, traveled 11 from Meridian to W.Va. but is unclear if segments were by train. And there is some question about whether 11 was paved in NE Alabama, particularly Dekalb County by 30. And Marsh says large segments of the trip through the American south were by train; whether that was coming or going I don't know at this moment.
I have every intent to contact the Collinsville Historical Society about the status of 11 in 30 and through emissaries am seeking some clarification from Marsh who I understand is still in Berlin.
I don't think Marsh came to UVA until 2000, by which time the Collinsville contingent of John and Matthew Morgan, and Casey Mattox had left the building. Maybe Matthew overlapped by a year. If that were the case maybe we could have some closure on Bonhoeffer's route this fall.
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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama

Postby Blake » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:58 am

Can someone explain why so many Bonhoeffer biographies are being published recently? Is there really a need for so many? Why didn't they just publish long articles critiquing whatever they felt lacked in in Bethge's?
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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama

Postby Ed Pettibone » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:27 pm

Blake wrote:Can someone explain why so many Bonhoeffer biographies are being published recently? Is there really a need for so many? Why didn't they just publish long articles critiquing whatever they felt lacked in in Bethge's?


Ed: Blake, it seems that in the publish or perish world, 1 book is worth 100 long articles. And there seems to be perception on the part of many, that if one is well acquitted with Bonhoeffer's life and work they are automatically a scholar.
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Bonhoeffer for Blake

Postby Stephen Fox » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:47 pm

Best I understand Marsh's DB bio will most likely not be published till fall of 2011; published in America by Knopf and also published in Germany

Blake:
I do hope you will listen to the 50 minute lecture linked above.
As Marsh says, Theology matters.
It is a remarkable lecture and there is a conversation coming from the different bents on the Metaxas and Marsh bios that promises to be quite remarkable.
Add to that the review in the New Republic by Damon Linker of Marsh's most recent work and you will set nicely to understand what looks like a fascinating discussion already begun.
World Magazine and Baptist Press and CToday have embraced the Metaxsas work and there is a lot there to embrace.
But as Marsh says in the lecture in re Bonhoeffer: "The time is propitious for a new consideration.".

Again listen to Marsh above alone, as if you are in church. It is masterful. I hope you will purchase Marsh's bio when it is published.

http://www.ericmetaxas.com/



http://www.crosswalk.com/11632688

From the CT review of Metaxas

In 1969, Robert Huldschiner wrote an article on "The Quest for the Historical Bonhoeffer" because radicals, liberals, and conservatives alike were claiming his heroic story as an embodiment of their distinctive convictions. Haynes explains it this way: "His spirituality may be cast in traditional categories familiar to orthodox Christians (e.g., commitment to prayer, Bible reading, preaching), in more progressive terms that appeal to mainline liberals (e.g., discipleship that emphasizes peace and justice), or in quasi-secular terms suited to a pluralistic, post-Christian culture (integrity between his convictions and behavior, advocacy for human rights)." It is a rare figure who is invoked in the liberal treatises Honest to God (1963) by John A. T. Robinson and The Secular City (1965) by Harvey Cox as well as This Momentary Marriage (2009) by conservative Reformed pastor John Piper and Performing the Faith (2007) by postliberal pacifist Stanley Hauerwas.
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Bad theology on the Panel??

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:08 pm

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On the DB Finkenwalde Experience

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:43 pm

From current issue of Baylor's Christian Reflection, article by SAmson of Georgetown KY:

Young contemporary Christians of Monastic traditions like the seminarians of DB's Finkenwalde, have grown weary of the false dichotomy between orthodoxy and orthopraxy; they seek the wholehearted integrity of Christian Faith and practice in a kind of new monasticism.
They resist their Christian friends today--on the right of the current theopolitical spectrums who would have them cleave to orthodoxy with little regard for the orthopraxy of the Church. For without that deep longing of the Church to "hunger and thirst for righteousness" or justice, how will congregations serve as the "hermeneutic of the gospel" in our culture? How will they interpret for our day the story of the Christ who calls us to transcend categories of race, ethnicity and gender?
The also resist Christian friends on the political and theological left who embrace a social gospel that has, over time, lost touch with the rich theological heart of the Christian message. Certainly, whensocial action is understood through and motivated by the orthodox witness of the Church, congregations can engage the culture in response to Christ's call to lay down our lives. But when they lose the theological foundation, how will they maintain their commitment to live in radical service to others?
This is where the work of Dietrich Bonhoeffer is so helpful in the contemporary conversation....

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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama/Rabbi Miller

Postby Stephen Fox » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:59 am

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=16508

I think it fair to say there is a sense in which Dietrich Bonhoeffer's spirit is carried on in Alabama by this Rabbi.

I was in a meeting with Rabbi Miller Jan 24, 2006; in the audience, he was on panel with Mike Shaw, Cliff Vaughn's sister, Wayne Flynt and his pastor; and I think Artur Davis was in the audience.

A moment full of promise even if there were other meetings in the state that same evening.
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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama/Rabbi Miller

Postby Jim » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:02 pm

Stephen Fox wrote:http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=16508

I think it fair to say there is a sense in which Dietrich Bonhoeffer's spirit is carried on in Alabama by this Rabbi.

I was in a meeting with Rabbi Miller Jan 24, 2006; in the audience, he was on panel with Mike Shaw, Cliff Vaughn's sister, Wayne Flynt and his pastor; and I think Artur Davis was in the audience.

A moment full of promise even if there were other meetings in the state that same evening.

Rabbi Miller: As many candidates did during the primaries, politicians and their wannabes will line up their Christian bona fides, and each will try to "out-Jesus" their opponents. They are preparing their 30-second television commercials touting their faith: They attend church, they can shoot a gun or ride a horse, and they have a hard time accommodating gays and lesbians and budget deficits.

J: Real nice guy, this Rabbi. His opinion of Christians tells us more about him than about them. As for the Christian gun-toting horsemen (maybe he was thinking of Armageddon), homosexuals and deficits, he needs to remember that the Jewish spearmen riding horses and camels back in the day served a God who condemned homosexual behavior with a fervor that eventuated in the burning of whole cities. Miller’s as dumb as a gourd.

Nutcase Rabbi: I daresay that Jesus, the Jew from Nazareth, would find far more in common with these humble servants than with many of the gun-toting or gay-bashing politicians, who turn on these social issues as their religious monikers during the election season, and then turn off their Christian service once they are elected.

J: Miller apparently has never read Luke 22:36 or John 2:14-16 to find out what Jesus might do under the appropriate circumstances as determined by him. He’s probably never read Matthew 11:23,24 and discovered the scorn Jesus heaped upon Sodom, with the inescapable condemnation of perverted behavior. The only – ONLY – entity that has preserved the nation of his heritage has been governed by gun-toting Christians since 1948. Where do they find rabbis this short of a full deck, or with a meaner spirit? He’s almost as dumb and mean as I am.

To mention this guy in the same breath with Bonhoeffer is virtually sacrilegious. Bonhoeffer, the humble spirit, conspired with gun-toting others to murder Hitler and lost his life in the bargain.
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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama/Rabbi Miller

Postby Haruo » Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:01 am

Jim wrote:… the Jewish spearmen riding horses and camels back in the day served a God who condemned homosexual behavior with a fervor that eventuated in the burning of whole cities. …

God didn't any more burn whole cities over "homosexual behavior" than He approved of the alternative Lot proposed.
Jim wrote:… He’s almost as dumb and mean as I am.

You're not that dumb and mean, Jim, you just come across that way.
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Berlin lecture

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:27 pm

Haruo, have you listened to Marsh lecturein Berlin at the top of this page.
I wish you would and get the word out in Seattle.
Also check on my letter to the Kagan/Boshevik post at religion dispactches dot org.
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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama

Postby Howard V » Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:48 pm

Fox:

Have you read the fairly new biography of Bonhoeffer by Eric Metaxas entitled Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy? I recently heard a interview of Metaxas which was very interesting. I've put this book on my "To Read List," along with his previous biography of William Wilberforce.
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Marsh is better

Postby Stephen Fox » Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:40 pm

Save your money for Charles Marsh bio of DB. Interesting reviews of Metaxas in World Mag and Christianity Today and Bap Press has endorsed it.
Marsh is Fisher Humphreys nephew.
Spot read Metaxas from public library, but save your money for Marsh.

And by all means listen to the Marsh lecture on Bonhoeffer 1931 year in America where he drove HWy 11 across Alabama on way back from New Orleans up through WVA to NYC. March lecture in Berlin earlier this year.
When Marsh publishes fall of 2011 the the discussions in Wake of it all should lay waste among other things to Timothy George emphasis on the Barmen Declaration to scandalize SBTS proff Paul Simmons; but that will be a rabbit trailinthe bigger scheme of things.
Marsh should shake some SBC foundations for those who are paying attention, though his insight as promised by the Berlin lecture will have universal implications.

See tiny url link above for the Marsh Berlin lecture; click and listen, the last 10 minutes sublime.
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George W. Bush

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:11 am

Apparently is reading the Metaxas bio ofDB. I hope someone will get word to him to listen to Marsh's sublime lecture from Berlin.
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Niebuhr on Bush 43 and Bonhoeffer

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:06 pm

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Benefactors of rigorous thinking

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:24 pm

Metaxas on Bonhoeffer on BookTV. President Bush 43 has read the book and Gus Niebuhr has commented on his reading.
I maintain The Upcoming Charles marsh effort on DB will be better; but Metaxas has some strong points in this presentation. Q and A starts about minute 50
I hope a good many of you have heard Marsh's lecture on DB March of 2010 from Berlin:

http://www.booktv.org/Watch/12032/Bonho ... t+Spy.aspx
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Metaxas DB review in New Republic

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:22 pm

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Interesting blog on Metaxas bio

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:53 pm

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Bonhoeffer Hijacked

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:12 pm

Eloquently stated:

The biggest problem with Metaxas' book is its structural principle of condemning “liberal” and promoting "evangelical" Christianity, which he constructs as polar opposites. As Clifford Green observes in Christian Century, Metaxas condemns liberal Union Seminary in New York, where Bonhoeffer spent 1930-31, implying that Bonhoeffer escaped spiritual starvation there to be fed "real" spiritual food and to be “born again” at the Abyssinian Baptist Church in Harlem. While the Harlem experience was truly formative for Bonhoeffer, so was that of Union. From start to finish, while lifting often-correct statements from his sources, Metaxas peppers his colorful and entertaining narrative with language and judgments that subtly but unfaithfully box Bonhoeffer into categories Bonhoeffer never accepted, creating an anti-"liberal" polemic for today’s reader. Green expands upon the intellectual and theological influence of Bonhoeffer’s lifelong friendships from Union on his work on the Sermon on the Mount and on his evolving understanding of discipleship and pacifism.

I agree with Victoria Barnett, writing in the International Bonhoeffer Society Newsletter, that a thorough exploration of Bonhoeffer by an evangelical well-versed in the historical and theological context of the German Church Struggle would be an important contribution. However, from the simplistic structure and obvious polemic intent of Metaxas' narrative to his uncritical and unsystematic use of limited sources, he not only fails at this, but does both Bonhoeffer and contemporary readers a gross disservice in implying that evangelicals are immune from the tragic error of merging nationalistic fervor with Christian piety


From:

Agenda Driven Biography in Sojourners with reference to the Green review in Christian Century:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=ma ... -biography

And the Christian Century calls it a Hijacking

http://www.christiancentury.org/reviews ... bonhoeffer
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Bonhoeffer on a Black Poet

Postby Stephen Fox » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:53 pm

Page 75 of McBride and Jenkins collection of essays Bonhoeffer and King; Josiah Young reports:

"If", Bonhoeffer writes in "Protestantism without Reformation", it has come about that today the 'black Christ' has to be led into the field against the 'white Christ' by a young Negro poet, then a deep cleft in the church of Jesus Christ is indicated.
King would have agreed that a black Christ who squares off against a white Christ stems from the history of Protestant church unable toseparate the church's role from that of the state.


Strong sentences that must be discussed only in the context in which they appear. I hope some of you will seek out this volume and read this essay, the one by Charles Marsh and also McElwain at a minimum.
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Neil Heath in Alabama

Postby Stephen Fox » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:49 am

Had a serendipitous conversation with Neil this morning by cell. He was doing missions in nearby Williams.

Shared the testimonial John Grammer Review with him from the March 2001 John Grisham publication Oxford American Magazine of Charles Marsh's the Last Days. Here is a paraphrase of the operative concluding sentence: Marsh's less climactic tale is truer history while White South didn't so much solve the Civil Rights issue as fret uncomfortably while others solved it.

Pretty much the exercise now of the Alabama Southern Baptist Convention and Alabama's immigration law; very consequential though milder version of the dilemma; even though the last three days of the NY Times front page and elsewhere--see reports from albertville, Alabama in the comments numbering 730 on some versions of the story.

Marsh's Knopf published biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer A Strange Glory will come out in 2012.

I expect every church library and local public library in Alabama to have a copy immediately as Marsh promises to have a strong Alabama tale. Given Bama's track record these last months, at least libraries can do better than one in particular in regard the Oxford American.

BTW, Ron Rash had a great poem in same issue: The Request . And check online current issue. Hal Crowther swings strong, and great collection of Creative Teachers at University level across the Region.
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Last several sentences of the Grammer review of Marsh

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:54 pm

The father's paralysis painful to him and in its way poignant, undermines the story his son wants to write, depriving it of a climax. The Last Days intoduces a Chekovian gun in Act One, but commits itself to a protagonist who will never pull the trigger. In some ways, though, that makes it a truer history of its subject, for the White South itself didn't so much solve the issue of legalized inequality as fret uncomfortably while others solved it. Marsh's uncomfortable and formally disappointing memoir makes a vivid record of a disappointing era.
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Miscegenation. Poem/Joe Christmas

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:19 pm

Miscegenation.

"In 1965, my parents broke two laws of Mississippi.
They went to Ohio to marry, returned to Mississippi.

They crossed the river into Cincinnati,
a city whose name begins with a sound like sin, the sound of wrong,
miss in Mississippi.

A year later they moved to Canada,
followed a route the same as slaves,
the train slicing the white glaze of winter leaving Mississippi.

Faulkner's Joe Christmas was born in winter like Jesus,
give his name for the day he was left at the orphanage,
his race unknown in Mississippi.

My father was reading 'War and Peace' when he gave me my name.
I was born near Easter, 1966 in Mississippi.
When I turned 33 my father said, it's your Jesus year.
You're the same age he was when he died.

It was spring. The hills green in Mississippi.
I know more than Joe Christmas did.
Natasha is a Russian name though I'm not.
It means Christmas child even in Mississippi."

By the Poet Laureate of Mississippi and the United States

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2013- ... transcript
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Re: Bonhoeffer in Alabama/Niebuhr on W43

Postby Haruo » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:28 pm

Just out of curiosity, did Ohio have anti-miscegenation laws on the books when her parents married, and were those laws still in force when she was born? I know Mississippi did, but the Wikipedia article on her says her parents were "married illegally", which seems ambiguous unless Ohio had such laws.

The only Ohio law on the subject I can find refers to a $100 fine for a person of "pure white blood" who marries or has sex with a person with "a distinct and visible admixture of African blood". Since African blood does not visibly differ from the blood of white folks, and since no human beings of any race have "pure white blood", it would seem moot.

Washington repealed its anti-miscegenation law in 1887, the year Esperanto was born and two years before statehood.

Thanks for the poem, and the heads-up about the new PL, Fox.
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Metaxas 2013 ten city tour

Postby Stephen Fox » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:01 pm

And concerrns on Charles Marsh facebook wall, that Metaxas is fanning flames of" tyrannicide"

EM has a ready-made audience out there. Join you, CM, in wishing he'd stop fanning.

about an hour ago · Like · 1..

Diana Butler Bass Thank you, Charles. A number of my academic friends think his Bonhoeffer book is actually dangerous.

about an hour ago · Like · 1..

Charles Twombly Some people are legends in their own mind. Not referring to Bonhoeffer.
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