Baptists and Birth Control?

[Haruo]

Michael, I don't think it's PC to refer to Rev. Bonney, a moderator here, as "Timmy, Timmy, Timmy". I know I would be less than thrilled if flaja were to start posts aimed at me with "Har, Har, Har".....

Haruo

[Lowen]

Ahhh, come on. Timmy is a cuddly name. Just hearing it would make even the meanest guys want to go up give him a massive bearhug.

"cuddly Timmy"

[Lowen]

Ok, I apoligize... you know.. you did sorta make fun of my name too. "Lowel or Michael or whatever you name is"

[Haruo]

You don't need to tell the world, Michael, you can PM Timothy or any or all of the moderators, or you can even call them on a telephone [but don't--see next post in thread]. Mrs Haruo shares a lot of your attitude towards self-exposure on the web. I don't, but I respect it.

Haruo

[Shortandy]

[Joshua Villines]

Shortandy,

It's prooftexting when the person making the quotes acts as if God wrote them for all situations and all time and/or ignores texts (presumably also written by God for all time) that contradict the string of texts provided.

For instance, other texts might be equally instructive on God's view of children:

I Samuel 15:2-3 - God orders that every child and infant of the Amalekites be executed

Deuteronomy 3:1-7 - Killing children part of taking the Promised Land

Joshua 6 - God sends Joshua to kill everyone in Ai, including the children

Psalm 137 - Bashing the heads of your enemy's infants against a rock = a good thing

I mean, as long as we're prooftexting.

[Shortandy]

[Lowen]

Regardless of how cultures change, God still doesn't change. What He considered a sin in the past, He still considers a sin today. Stop beating around the bush...

And yes, if you want to me too, I can start quoting many many many many scriptures to go in "context" with any scriptures I post. In fact, I already do post the surrounding verses most of the time. Just look at my posts on the threads and see for yourself.

[Haruo]

[Lowen]

We live in the age of grace. Plain and simple. Read the New Testament to find out why we don't have to keep Kosher kitchens anymore. Paul is clear why.

Also, love covers a multitude of sins:

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
1Pe 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

[Haruo]

[Lowen]

Not so fast Mr. Bonney. Let me use a quick example to help you understand what I am saying. Ok, lets look at Homosexuality. Obviously, Lev. 18:22 condemns it as an abomination. Or as the modern perversions put it, "detestable sin" (eww, even just typing this modern "correction" makes me sick at my stomach. It's so "cutsey-fied"). Men were instructed to kill those who practiced such an abomination as punishment. In the age of grace, men no longer kill them for practicing this abomination. However, God still views it as an abomination... a putrid stench in his nostrils.

Does that make sense?

And Haruo, I'm done with the KJB debate. It's over, as I stated in another thread. It's good enough now just to know that I love the KJB more than the other versions. Leave it at that.

[ET]

If the replacement birth rate is 2.1, then would one infer (from Lowen's argument) that a Christian couple having less than 3 children is "sinning"? We can only multiply if we exceed the replacement level birth rate. Hmmm.....maybe Mohler or Lowen has some input.

[Lowen]

God never commanded us to have a bazillion children. If you are looking that far into those statements of God, then your looking just a little bit too much. All I tried to point out was that it is a blessing in God's sight to have children.

[Haruo]

[Lamar Wadsworth]

On the issue of proof texting, some observations in no particular order with no claim of personal infallibility, not an exhaustive list, just a naming over of a few principles I try to follow in my own preaching and teaching:
*My homiletics prof at SBTS, Dr. James Cox, used to refer to proof-text preaching as "using the Bible as though it were Bartlett's Familiar Quotations." The proof-texter starts with his own ideas and arguments and pulls whatever quotes he can from Scripture to support his ideas which may or may not be scriptural in origin. We all are in constant danger of importing our ideas to Scripture and imposing our own ideological framework upon Scripture.
*We all have cultural biases/assumptions that influence the way we read and interpret Scripture and determine which ideas/themes in Scripture we are inclined to emphasize. That is true no matter what your cultural/ethnic background is, what language you speak, what your religious background is, or where you live. Your cultural biases/assumptions may or may not be similar to mine. We all think our biases/assumptions are right. We are all inclined to think that our way is God's way. We cannot avoid having biases/ assumptions. The best we can do is try to figure out what they are and allow Scripture to call at least some of them into question. How else can we explain the way that so many good, kind, decent, Christian, God-loving, Bible-believing, churchgoing people accepted and even defended racial segregation for so many years?
*Open the Bible to any book, any chapter, any page, and you are visiting a culture with a different language, different customs, and different assumptions that is very different from your own. If you visit a foreign country and know nothing about the culture and customs, you will make some embarrassing blunders, likewise with interpreting Scripture.
*Unless careful reading and disciplined study of Scripture has compelled us to change our minds about some long-held beliefs and assumptions, we have not trusted the Scriptures enough to let them speak the word of God to us.
*Ignoring the historical and cultural context of a passage will lead you as far astray as ignoring how the passage fits into the Biblical writer's train of thought. For instance, to rightly interpret the "I suffer not a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man..." passage in I Timothy 2, one absolutely must know something about the religious/cultural climate in Ephesus at the time and be aware that Paul is addressing a particular group of women in Ephesus who were teaching heresy, not all women in all times and places. To yank this passage out of its historical/cultural context and absolutize it for all times/places/circumstances is heresy. It is as bad as the "Judas went out and hanged himself/Gothou and do likewise" sort of proof-texting. No doctor gives the same prescription or administers the same treatment to every patient. Just as the physician prescribes according to the needs of a specific patient, God, and Biblical writers inspired by God, speak to specific people, places, and situations. Producing as many kids as you can may be a good idea if you need lots of hands to help work the farm. It may not be such a good idea if you're not working a big farm and you can't afford to feed, clothe, house, and educate them all. Just yesterday, Burke County GA DFCS had to get a shelter care order and take custody of a sibling group of 11 children living in squalid conditions with no food in the house. Not what God had in mind when He said (to different people in a different time and circumstances) to "be fruitful and multiply."

As another esteemed BLer would say, "just thoughts..."

[Lowen]

I apoligize if my opinion was offensive. I have nothing against putting the Bible into another language (like Chinese or Japanese)... people need the Gospel. My concern is only for the modern English translations. I don't trust them.

But that's my opinion, and it's ok to have opinions and to even argue about them sometimes with others, to share your beliefs. I've already done that... so lets not continue this... I'm now just wanting to focus on other things...

[Stephen Fox]

http://www.religiondispatches.org/archi ... _movement/

[Chris]

This lady has apparently escaped from the Quiverfull cult.
http://www.alternet.org/belief/how-play ... 020908&t=3