question of theology

[doug-s]

I have read a few posts here over an extended period of time, but now I have a question that I would like some input on.

I am not a member of any particular denomination, except for a loyal follower of Jesus Christ. I do attend a denominational church of a different flavor, but I think that is because that is where God has instructed me to be right now.

For the past 5 years I have been in essence the leader of the "contemporary" worship service at this church. A position I admit I was very reluctant to accept. Over time though it became very important in the life of myself and my family, as well revitalized a church very much in need. I know this was not of my own accord, but through what God chose me to do.

Recently though I was "told" that if I wanted to continue in the capacity that I was serving I would have to submit to a background check. I fully understand the reasoning, which is to protect the children. While I agree we should take every step we can to protect children, I think the theology behind this action is taking a huge step away from sound christian principles. I have researched this "denominations" official position on this very extensively. In plain black and white they are taking the position of catagorizing sin and taking the position that they now have the authority to decide which sins are serious enough to disqualify a person from service in this denomination.

The following is taken directly from their website: I have edited out the denominations name.

[i]Results of screens shall be kept confidential. The determination of whether a particular crime is serious enough to result in the "said denomination" giving a negative recommendation shall be made by the "said denomination" in its sole discretion. Without in any way limiting those crimes which the "said denomination" may determine to be serious,

examples include:

Persons having a criminal history of any of the following types of offenses shall not be allowed to serve in any ministry with children and youth:

Child abuse, whether physical, emotional, sexual, or neglectful
Violent offenses, including murder, rape, assault, domestic violence, etc
Persons having a Criminal History of DUI or DWI conviction within the five (5) years immediately prior to application shall not be allowed to act as a driver.
Persons having a Criminal History of a drug related conviction within the five (5) years immediately prior to application shall not be allowed to participate in the event.

While I fully realize some of these things are common sense, they also border strongly in my opinion of saying that because you have a checkered past you are going to be limited to sitting in the pews.

I just can't wrap my mind around this line of thinking. I was in fact told point blank that this was my only option, and that this is just the world we live in.

I have prayed and prayed about this issue, and I just keep coming back to this point. We are throwing out sprititual discernment, and believing God for the man, and are now going to operate under the auspices of fear. A very disheartening decision.

[William Thornton]

[Joshua Villines]

[Lamar Wadsworth]

[doug-s]

[Joshua Villines]

[Sandy]

[doug-s]

Sandy

I agree a person should not automatically be discounted because of something that might have happened in the past. That is the point that I am trying to make. However it is the human conditions that are serving as the restrictions. I am every bit as guilty of this as the next person is. God has to deal with my heart daily on this very issue. I think the difference between myself and others is that I realize this. And I certainly do not mean that as a put down to anyone. It is just one of the many areas that God has been at work in me. We are fortunate that we can agree to disagree on this issue and many others. I have been a Christian for 15 years, and the desires of my heart show in the things that I do. That should be good enough, but sadly everyone wants to see something in writing as proof. Unfortunately God does not write letters of recommendation.

[Ed Pettibone]

[Joshua Villines]

[Haruo]

[Ed Pettibone]

[doug-s]

Haruo:

And when a person who was once a child molester says "I have repented and God has taken away my sin and I no longer molest children. Please let me work in your youth ministry department" if the church says "No" that is not an indication that they do not trust God; rather, it is an indication that they do not fully trust (and such a request is, in itself, a red flag) the former offender.

Tim:

I agree with your view Joshua. A convicted murderer can certainly be forgiven of his sin but, it doesn't mean that he may still not have to do the time for his crime.

Joshau:

Not at all, Ed. God's forgiveness is open to all.

Nevertheless, for instance, if a person has ever been convicted of molesting a child they will never, under any circumstances, be allowed to serve in the nursery of a church where I am the pastor - whether the offense happened sixty seconds ago or sixty years ago.

__________________________________________________________

There seems to be a central theme here. I think we can stipulate as to the fact that God can and will forgive anyone who asks forgiveness in His name. However it appears that the human element cannot seem to wrap the carnal mind around that line of thinking. That is indeed a statement of the absolutes that some of you have been referring too, or dare I say the absolutely nots. You are in essence saying "a person can get God's forgiveness but you will never get mine". Speaking only for myself, your forgiveness is really not of any importance. God dealt with my heart many years ago on the issue of forgiveness. For those of you who are pastors I would highly suggest you get out of the comfort of your churches, and spend some time in a prison ministry. I have been there so I can speak directly to the issue. Put yourselves in the midst of some of the lowest individuals on the earth. Much the same as Jesus did. You will indeed learn to find the goodness in a man's heart, not to mention what it will do for your own. It goes right back to what I said in the beginning about believing God for the man. Sad to say but this point has fallen way short in the churches around this country.

[Haruo]

I for one do not believe that God requires us to be Absolute fools. God may call particular people to be absolute fools in specific times and places, but it's not a blanket expectation.

Haruo

[Haruo]

[Haruo]

[William Thornton]

[ehart]