Is Truett Cathy a "counterfeit" Baptist

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Postby Big Daddy Weaver » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:18 pm

Ouch, a jab in the side.

If the CBF had taken your advice, we'd be the size of the Alliance at best and Non-Existenant at worst.

Moderate Baptists (i.e. folks in the pews) didn't leave the SBC to embrace an Affirming position.

Vestal's done a good job keeping the CBF afloat. While I do wish the CBF would address other issues, I'm quite pleased we're not perceived as a one-issue denomination like the Alliance.
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Postby Mark » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:33 pm

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:Is Truett Cathy an "authentic Baptist"?? I do know that he seemed genuinely supportive of my decision to intern at the BJC a couple of years ago...


Truett Cathy voted several years ago, along with a majority of his fellow Mercer trustees, to affirm President Kirby Godsey's leadership when he was under fire from a large segment of Georgia Baptists.

Having worked at Chick-Fil-A for two-plus years of high school, then again after my first summer of college (which, apart from a Chick-Fil-A scholarship, probably wouldn't have been possible) I do think Truett Cathy is a fine man. I'm honored to have met and been around him several times in person.
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Postby Joshua Villines » Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:42 pm

Big Daddy Weaver wrote:If the CBF had taken your advice, we'd be the size of the Alliance at best and Non-Existenant at worst.


That's almost exactly what Keith Parks said in his reprehensible speech at the Atlanta CBF the year the "hiring policy" was approved. I must have missed the part in the Gospel of John where Jesus said, "Oh, drat, look how many of you have run away now that I'm talking about eating my flesh and drinking my blood. Let's pretend I never said that. I want to keep you in your 'comfort zone' so you can be empowered.

Moderate Baptists (i.e. folks in the pews) didn't leave the SBC to embrace an Affirming position.


Supposedly they left the SBC to join a body that wouldn't make doctrinal statements of any kind. In fact, said body refused to make any statement affirming women in ministry. They waited until a bunch of Texas conservatives were waffling about where to send their money...then they made a doctrinal statement on homosexual employees (while continuing to accept and name affirming churches as part of the partnership.

In other words, CBF claimed to be a place for partnership, not doctrine - until it looked like it would cost them money. My preference would have been for them to be a place that took clear stands and set clear boundaries. Instead, they took the route of least offense - only making boundaries when not doing so was politically inadvisable.

There are still enough people around who remember the resurgence/takeover and want to support CBF as a result. Since CBF is increasingly taking the "SBC Lite" or "Texas Baptist" route, my guess is that 50 years from now they won't have a comparable donor base. Most of the now-CBF churches will have migrated back to the SBC entirely (the fact that many (most?) of them give money to the CBF and the SBC is a good indicator of that). The rest will probably have gone to either the ABC or an ABC splinter group (the same place the Alliance may ultimately end up).

I do wonder how big the Alliance would be if it determined its membership the same way the CBF does it...:)

Joshua
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Postby fox » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:17 pm

Please take the Gay thing as regards CBF and liberalism in the SBC to another thread. Start a new thing. I do not wish it to sabotage this very timely exploration of the nuances of Truett CAthy's leagcy in the Baptist World, let alone, an immediate exploration of how he and CFA set themselves up in re Cecil Staton and Perry McGuire.
The latest on that front is from http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=7918
Mark, you are right about the Truett I have heard about. He is a very winsome and honorable fellow. I am glad he stood by Kirby Godsey. It woulda been interesting to have some official statements from him about the Shorter debacle.
My Dad used to implore him on the several occasions he spoke to him playfully goading Truett about the triangle in Centre, Alabama on the West Side where 441 splits to the Centre Bypass.
Huddle House got it. It's a shame cause he woulda been four hundred yards down the road from the Cherokee County DOM's office, a man who supported Judge Roy Moore for Governor, and whose brother was one of the first to speak against a Guatemalan dialect charismatic COG Cleveland, TN locating in a residential area in NE Alabama.
Would be interesting to see how CFA's official justice Christian convictions woulda weighed in on that near wisdom of Solomon call. Would be interesting for somebody in the Baptist press world to query Perry Mcguire on some such matter. I am sure you could find a similar example in Gainesville or Dalton.
No Jonathan, I have not read Edsall's book yet, but I did ask President Carter a stellar question in Bham 93 framed in Edsall 84 book The New Politics of Inequality. I talked to Edsall in 86 in the press room of the Atlanta SBC where he met my Dad and Bill Self. I think I have told the story several times of that incident. My Dad made a quite hilarious impression on Edsall, but my Dad was bigger than life, and he made memorable impressions on lots of folks.
I have a fast order request in on the book for a NE Bama Jr. College library, having already brought it to the attention of Janet Mayo, chief assistant to Lowell Barron, my state Senator who is widely known to be the 2nd most powerful man in the state.
I do what I can, and soon as I get my hands on it, Lord willing, will devour it in about two days.
In the meantime, I have read the four page excerpt in the New Republic, and apparently you have not.
Thanks for keeping tabs on me. God Knows I need a minder, monitor, some dogged fundy to keep on my case and thanks for being the Presence of Christ in that regard for me, my own Indiana hound of Heaven or Hades, some days I don't know :lol: :!: :lol: :P :D :D
And Oh, Jonah, you may want to go to http://www.pbs.org/frontline and search for the documentary on Karl Rove. Edsall has an extended interview there you will want to make yourself conversant in.
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Just got a big tip

Postby fox » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:44 pm

Look for an interview of Randall Balmer in October issue of Baptists Today. In case some folks from CFA have found this thread and continue to follow it; please do pass this interview around the corporate offices, get Balmer's book, and read carefully Balmer's 2nd chapter Where Have All the Baptists Gone.
Remember, Balmer, has twice been Dotson Nelson Lecturer at Samford, and is a plumbline by which Bob Terry and Rick Lance can adjudicate their watch and how high they are holding the Baptist Torch in Alabama in their time.
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This is just too rich

Postby fox » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:45 pm

From page 176 of James Hefley's Truth in Crisis series on the takeover of the SBC is fascinating documentation of the events in the press room in San Antonio in 1988. I was there.
ABout the allegations of Neal Rodgers in his famous Baptist Laity issue that had pressler and patterson's names on the official invitation list for an early meeting of the council for National Policy Paige said: "I don't suggest that [pressler] and I are not influenced by friends wherever we find them....I deny that there is any organic connection of any kind, shape or form between our involvement and concerns in national affairs and our concerns [in the sbc]"

Yeah, there is a man Wade Burleson can trust now more than ever in this imbroglio in the IMB, just like the mod fighters [ I count Lamar and myself among them] learned to love, adore and trust Paige Patterson and Pressler in the 80's.
It's been a while since I walked on the water, but those two men have no integrity, and Richard Land is not far behind them in a low calibration of such; and it is unseemly to see Truett CAthy and his corporate attorney Perry McGuire have any role in the gunk.
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In

Postby fox » Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:38 am

The Some would say, my detractors, the refined tradition of biting the hand that feeds you, want to give kudos to Mr. Cathy and company this morning for the great sausage burrito I got with a coupon at Unit 1867.
It is with that nourishment I have the energy to nuance the issues, and challenge Perry McGuire, Staton or some of their agent to show.
first background is the ED.com editorial this morning
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=7938 , a testimony from a Republican about how the forces now in alliance with Cecil staton and CFA's Perry's Mcguire's bid for atty general in Georgia have hijacked the GOP.
And here is a conference, a day of which I hope to make.
Hope Gourley and Shurden will be humble enough to show and make their case as strongly as they can, and CBF leadership as well as it is practically in their backyard.
And for heaven's sake, somebody call CBF offices and don't let them embarass me, coming to this symposium without a working conversational knowledge of Balmer's 2nd Chapter and Michelle Goldberg's links of the SBC takevoer to the Birch Society, and the wisdom Kevin Phillips has shared with us all in American Theocracy.
Hope there is no classroom remedials in the CBF bureacracy for this conference.
I am tiring of being the village idiot that somehow too often has to educate the salaried professionals wherever I go :lol: :D :censored: :censored: :P :arrow: :| :angel:
William, double de dawg dare you to show up for this one. If you make an effort, coordinate off camera with me so we show up on same day cause I cannot afford the weekend. I am shooting to be in the room with Cynthia Tucker. so shoot for that and we will sit beside each other and share the Light.
http://www.candler.emory.edu/ABOUT/fallconference06
or call 404-727-0714 for this Oct 8-19 conference.
Hoping Jon Appleton is there. Will be greatly disappointed if I don't see him and Dan Vestal on the front row with Gourley.
And remember all, Balmer in big interview in the upcoming issue of Baptists Today. Perry Mcguire and the CFA corporate offices should be putting in a special order now for that issue. :lol:
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Is anybody close enough to the inside of the CFA

Postby fox » Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:09 pm

empire to see if top level folks have picked up Tom Edsall's Book Building Red America; and or red the interview of Randall Balmer in October Baptists Today.
I get word Balmer may be coming to Mercer next Spring.
Win or lose, hope Perry Mcguire, Truett Cathy, Cecil Staton can make arrangements to be there that day.
Would be a shame if a man named for George Truett would not show up in Georgia to hear a distinguished professor from Columbia University who champion's Truett's name in his highly acclaimed book; would be a travesty if Truett Cathy does not show up on that day well versed in Balmer and Edsall's book.
Sfox
Oh, and Perry and CFA staff need to be present Monday at Candler summit on religion and politics, and read my blog about likely fellow traveler Don Stout here in NE Bama
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eat more chikin

Postby Danny Chisholm » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:41 pm

Whatever you do, please don't mess with Chik-fil-A. THose chicken sandwiches are something else. And closed on Sundays.
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Postby fox » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:03 am

You live in Chattanooga?
May meet you sometime later this fall at the Cracker Barrel in Ft. Payne.
Keep an eye on the At Const next couple days and the columns of Cynthia Tucker for a report on the Emory summit on religion and politics.
will be interesting to see if CFA takes part.
BTW, Having lunch at CFA in about two hours. Got my coupon ready to go gonna round off with Medium waffle fries and carrot raisin salad.
Good lunch on a beautiful day :!: :angel:
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eat more chikin

Postby Danny Chisholm » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:32 pm

We live close to Chattanooga. Tried to read your profile but wasn't sure what all you were doing with yourself these days. Your pic looked like you had been to a CBF national meeting.
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Had lunch at chic

Postby fox » Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:39 pm

Fil A today. Had a good chat with good kid there who is a home schooler and rides his bike up Lookout Mtn everyday to and from work. Wants to own a cfa himself some day, a PCAer
Good kid; gonna bring him to Bob Skelton's attention and see what chkn can do for Him :!:
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More from Kuo

Postby fox » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:12 pm

ED.com does stellar effort today with lots of links for Chic Fil A, Karl rove and Richard Land, not to mention SBTS Russ Moore, who Adrian Rogers' son in so many words on Saturday at Burleson's Grace and Truth Blog; Son David Rogers named Mohler's boy Russ Moore a demagogue.
But here is the link of theDay for the Cathy's and everyone in the Dub Counterrevolution, which would include Francis Schaefer and all his ideological heirs.
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=8017
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Still

Postby fox » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:28 pm

hoping Gourley, William and or the crackerjack staff at CBS in Makin will give us a review of the Candler conference last Monday on Religion in politics.
In the meantime, if my suspicions are right and staff of CFA headquaters continue to monitor this discussion, I refer them to my post today in the Tempting Faith Thread.
Halperin's book The Way to Win may be of help not only to myself--we all have things to learn--as well as Perry Mcguire.
Perry, you should come over to NE Bama, or make an invitation to Don Stout and some other Republicans over this way, next time yall have a workshop of the Political Action Wing of CFA.
Got my coupons in my pocket. Planning to dine at Unit 927 for lunch
:wave:
:) I just made up the unit number, not sure which one it is, just know I'm eating there.
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Wonder

Postby fox » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:33 pm

What CFA and Perry McGuire make of this-- http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=8032
Also wondering if the Mercer Baptist Center for Ethics will ever help us here understand the salient points of Candler's Religion and Politics Forum of couple weeks ago.
Just wondering.
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Postby Joshua Villines » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:38 am

Fox,

I always hate to intrude on threads where you're talking to yourself ;) (and I don't want to derail this one again), but I thought you might want to know that Truett Cathy is being discussed in this thread on Fark.

My comments are farther down the thread. They probably wouldn't make it past the censors here, so I won't repost them.

Posting them, however, made me realize that I should probably get you to pass on a Thank You note from me and several of my old friends to your friend Bob Skelton (who I'm sure is a good person, just a bad fit for Berry). If he hadn't brought so many repressed, fundamentalist girls to Winshape and then continued to contribute to that repression, well...Saturday nights wouldn't have been nearly as much fun.

-Joshua
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Postby fox » Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:46 pm

Looks like your Fark chat is overrun with lot of self entitlement, narcissistic 20 and 30 somethings who are low on virtue and manners.
What you could do to help this thread is to share what the religion and politics summit at Emory's Candler meant to you.
And Living practically in emory's back door if I got your location right; if you didn't go; then sorry dawg, I don't have much time to talk to you from here on out cause you and the farkers got much lower Spiritual IQ than the Cathy Family, even though I part with them on West Rome and the SBC Takeover.
What I am saying is I don't feel a lot of church in my give and take with you.
Have you read any Pelikan or James Wood Lately?
What do you have to say for yourself today that would lead me to believe I should waste any more time in conversation with you.
What do you have to offer other than some elitist condescension that you got it right about where Baptists should be on the Gay issue and every one who differs with you is a closet fundamentalist?
I got lost somewhere in the one issue point you were trying to make.
This emoticon is for you :wall: :D
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just in case

Postby fox » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:55 pm

anybody from the CFA corporate offices is continuing to monitor this thread, please please bring this to Perry Mcguire's attention.
Great debate going on at The New Republic, which has resonance not only for Alabama as Amy Sullivan wrote the Would Jesus Bolt Wash Monthly article about Bama's Randy Brinson, but also because this article could help Tom Corts fashion his thinking in regard my question to him last night on statewide TV--see My blog post of today
Here is the link.
See if I got to it here first before Robert Parham and Bruce Prescott
BDaddy Weave, you can help alert Ben Cole and Barry Hankins about this one; it has great promise, and should once and for all get Rich Lowry to shut up
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mtml?i=w061023&s ... livan10246
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let

Postby fox » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:59 pm

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let

Postby fox » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:00 pm

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Here

Postby fox » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:05 pm

is another community of Christians for Perry McGuire and the corporate offices of Chic Fil A to engage.
I cannot understand how this one took me a month to find.
Makes the conversation at tnr.com that has spilled over to http://www.faithinpubliclife.org even more compelling and timely
http://www.redletterchristians.org
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As

Postby fox » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:55 pm

President Bush is bookending his plane trip to SugarLand Tom Delay Texas with STops in Georgia, home of Chic Fil A and its corporate Atty Perry McGuire now running for Attorney Gen; it seems incumbent for the virtue and integrity that haloes the CAthy family, that they take upon themselves to master an understanding of Tom Edsall and Randall Balmer's take on Richard Land.
I just had to repeat that sentiment here a week before this midterm election.
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And

Postby fox » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:38 pm

I would encourage the staff at Chic Fil A and PerryMcGuire to set their vcrs for 5:30 am Sunday Nov 5th for a repeat of Andrew Sullivan and David Brooks exquisite presentation at the Cato Inst Oct 5, the "CONSERAVTIVE" Cato institute, presentation on church state issues and Sullivan's new book.
Also, Sat Nov 4 at 1:30 Tom Edsall whose latest book I have been touting will be on Booktv.org. Some of you want to tape that as well.
Check TV schedules at the website
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And more

Postby fox » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:01 pm

Do read the Loconte Sullivan exchange and look for refined thought at James EVans of Auburn FBC new blog. He is supposed to have something strong and new up Nov 1.
In meantime Part Two of this allen wolfe review of Kuo's new book has some insight, but not as good as I hoped it would be.
Something is askew for sure
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20061106 ... 110606&c=2
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Phenom

Postby fox » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:22 pm

phenom of an article here deserving of wide discussion by Chic fil A Staff as well as the rest of us.
BTW, had a great CFA sandwich for lunch

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19590
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