Collinsville, AL

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Collinsville, AL

Postby Mark » Mon Feb 27, 2006 3:49 pm

For good or bad, our friend Fox has called attention to a place called Collinsville, Alabama; having "put it on the map", so to speak. Because some have said that any publicity is good publicity, I thought the world deserved to know a little more about a fine town and a fine church, particularly their respective and interesting histories, which I enjoyed reading.

Both town and congregation will remain stronger, I'm convinced, to the extent Fox is able to remain a part of both... And, of course, to the extent all parties behave. I suppose that's true for any of us. :)
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Sweet

Postby fox » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:00 am

I may ride to the conference with Mr. Fortner and the Mayor and Vanessa Chambers and Annabelle the Christian Dog with Lyberry Privileges :lol:
I do hope conferees are aware of Judge Roy Moore and friends I imagine in part funded by Pressler's Council for National Policy's War on Faith clan Ralley mid march at http://www.visionamerica.us
Gary Palmer is on panel at the syposium linked below and he will be carrying Judge Moore, the Bama Christian Coalition's water.
I plan to be there at
http://www.harmoniesofliberty.org/schedule.php
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Bloom is beautiful here

Postby fox » Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:37 pm

Getting everything in order for Mr. Fortner when he gets hooked up here and his letter of yesterday goes online at http://www.postpaper.com

Bloom said in 92:
"....The tragedy of the SBC is the result of a purely political and social conspiracy that still masquerades as a religious movement. Its reductive anti-intellectualism reminds one of the Spanish Fascism of Franco, the Know-Nothing Baptists are the heirs of Franco's crusade against the mind, and not the legatees of Gresham Machen. But Fascist has never domesticated itself as an American term, so I will continue to emply Know Nothing as the accurate counter here.
The pietism or near mysticism of Southern Baptist experiential faith does not provide much worldly defense against a KN crusade. Nor version of religion that stakes everything upon a personal friendship with Jesus is going to educate its followers against conspirators. Mullins was a remarkable religious writer, but no prophet; he did not forsee the authentic decline in American and Southern Culture that made Criswell not only possible but inevitable......"

Mr. Fortner, ask Brother Butch about it. He knows the names and implications. Don't let him be coy. There are folks in Collinsville church ready to invited Jon Appleton over to Collinsville to preach the word and discuss Baptist ID. Bring former pastor Fred Grissom in also.
Ask the locals who remember them, and John Jeffers. I am enjoying our conversations and the graciousness so far, but again you speak with almost no authority in the Post Paper on Collinsville Baptist Church, its history and legacy.
The Truth is Out There. Keep searching. Glad you are reading Kimball.
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Another

Postby fox » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:24 pm

Resource for my two good friends on the Collinville City Council. Please print this out for them as well to go along with the tribute to Oscar Romero so maybe in some way the church the attend and the salvation they profess may show itself in the policy they effect and the parsing of at a minimum their public statments.
http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=1801
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Casey

Postby fox » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:24 pm

Casey Mattox is making a little sport of me in a citywide loop email, bringing all the muster that http://www.clsnet.org can show.
I looped Bruce Gourley in and hope he will share Casey's legal findings here on this board, and I dare Casey to jump in and discuss the real issues as frameworked by Thomas Frank in What's the Matter with Kansas, Hankins in Uneasy in Babylon (One Dr. Morgan apparently refuses to sully his hands with) and the harmonies of Liberty symp at Jojo and TylerPete's U Bama
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I was told

Postby fox » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:21 pm

Mr. Fortner's letter would be up this afternoon at http://www.postpaper.com/letters.htm but it is not up yet. He takes me to task pretty good, naming me more often than I named him in his rejoineder of Feb 27 Liberals Deny the Existence of God.
By the definition of a liberal that took over the SBC his own preacher is a liberal as if half the Sunday school class where I am gagged or they are fooling me.
Just because Mr. Fortner doens't know the definition doesn't make him any less culpable for his nonsense. I do like the good soul, coming in here from Branchville, SC. He edits some retired Navy Newsletter Mine Man or something about a vessel that got sunk in Charleston Harbor. I was down there three years ago at Jestine's but I didn't here any thing about it, nor did the man who said he didn't "take Notice" say anything about it either.
The Southern Baptist Definition of a Liberal: "A Liberal is Any Man who doesn't believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis is SCIENTIFICALLY AND HISTORICALLY ACCURATE"
i DON'T think Brother Butch Believes that and I don't think he will sign the BFM 2000 so he is a LIberal. Not my definition but the SBC's definition.
And if that don't stop it, by 1984 a Liberal is any human with a pulse who thinks God can call women to preach.
Well there goes the neighborhood cause 5 people in the CBC congregation are saying women can get God Called and that includes Pastor's Wife Gloria and Deacon Donnie Myers and I think the Shoogerboog though maybe she was looking around to see how Najaf Flooooooojah was votin for she got her hand all the way up.
Barbara Joiner is a Liberal and she even spoke in John Killian's church.
So As Criswell said brother Fortner; either you believe the Bible or you Don't and if you don't you ought to get out of the Pulpit. So to that end maybe I was right before they took me out on HWY 61 and 24-twoed me when I posted on this board late October 2003 you and your kind on the swell in the local congregation may got a "Personnel Problem". Strong language like that is what makes me suspect maybe it was the preacher indeed who went to the deacons the 2nd time to create the Ridiculous ultimatum they served me with; if in fact he wasn't the Mystery person of the first serving with SuperNovaLegacy Ms.Wilkins who never stumbles cause she got No Place to Fall, She's Nobody's Child, the Law Can't Touch her At All :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: paraphrasing Bub Dylan of the paraphrased Song, She Belongs to the Mayor :lol: :lol: :lol:
I read the Jan 24 Minutes this afternoon and read them to Uncle Prentice on the phone as well. Was a Kangaroo Court decision for sure. When I told him the vote was unanimous, he nonchalantly said: "Yeah, You're out." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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I

Postby fox » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:25 pm

Am not implying any nonsense with who belongs to whom, just a political metaphor. They all tacky party togehter and go home with the Partner they come with in good Baptist fun style and My Momma wouldn't had it any other way. Just wanted to get that part straight.
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Here Fortner

Postby fox » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:32 pm

Here is one for you to discuss with the Mine Men and your local cell of fundamentalists burgeoning in the Collinsville Baptist Church who don't know about Jon Appleton, and Fred Grissom and Barbara Joiner and some of the churches own favorite daughters.
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=7043
Ask around about the woman who stood up in the balcony
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Postby Mark » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:07 pm

fox wrote:Barbara Joiner is a Liberal and she even spoke in John Killian's church...


Apart from having been the keynote speaker at a national CBF gathering in Houston a few years ago, it would be a stretch for anyone to make a credible argument that Barbara Joiner is "liberal." :roll:

She is certainly revered in Alabama and elsewhere.


Fox wrote:I read the Jan 24 Minutes this afternoon and read them to Uncle Prentice on the phone as well. Was a Kangaroo Court decision for sure. When I told him the vote was unanimous, he nonchalantly said: "Yeah, You're out." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Fox, I'm confused. I thought you said the vote to oust you at Collinsville Baptist was a split vote. What are you talking about now?
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Postby Haruo » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:08 am

Wikipedia now has a small article on Collinsville in Esperanto, and a more comprehensive one in Ido (in fact, the Ido one is basically as complete as the English one). But none in Spanish.

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Mark, and Haruo

Postby fox » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:46 pm

Mark, yeah it was split with 24 against and Two four. I was not unanimous :lol: :lol: :lol:
But lot of folks including myself were not there that day and had I been there I think at least I could got it tabled till the locals had a chance to see that I was knowing going quietly on the railroard job and coulda seen my Gettysburg address of a letter of Nov 18, 03 where I stated for about the fifth time I was willing to meet face to face honorably like the Scripture states with my detractors. But the veil is stout tradition in Collinsville where rumor and the cornerstone are strong.
STrongest rumor to date has the wicked sisters--metaphor here, not all blood but united in cause--up to their most desperate scheme to date. Will let you know where it goes if they stoop that low in their latest Jezebellic like desing to ensnare the Magnificent Stevie, the valiant.
Haruo, the Local Historical Society does have some interesting tracts and tales if your NE Bama blood is blue. Anything much less or watered down and you are up to your own designs to created History. All this in English, so far, though I am convinced there will be some tales in Espanol in a few years.
Gonna be something come out of tomorrow night at 7; just what who is to know but something. I will keep you posted as long as Gourley keeps smiling. I got quoted in current Baptists Today, already hearing about it far away as Texas, so maybe that will give me little more leg strength for this unfolding story. Thanks for the interest in other parts of Alabama and Spokane.
Sfox March 6, Georgia; on stage today with friends of Lamar Wadsworth; and several there remember him well.
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Postby Mark » Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:09 am

fox wrote:Mark, yeah it was split with 24 against and Two four. I was not unanimous :lol: :lol: :lol: ...


What event, therefore, were you describing to Uncle Prent (as alluded to in your earlier post) , during which there WAS a "unanimous" vote?

(I suppose I should start learning how to speak Esperanto...) :)
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That woulda

Postby fox » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:29 am

been NJ's kangaroo courted with no dissenting witnesses present; the special called Lib Baord meeting of Jan 24 where the mayor came up with some "timely" advice on procedure and logistics to deal with said miscreant and I was forever Yale recommendation letter or no, contributor of Flynt's History of Bama Baps or NO, driving force in a failed attempt to get that "rag" Oxford American Mag on the shelves (BTW, current issue has two authors in it I coulda most likely brought to town for a fundraiser); unanimously I was ousted "also" in attendance the official minutes read were Librarian Jennifer Wilkins and Mayor Jimmy Carter.
Bogus, Bogus, Bogus; how sad
But events for the moment have overrun the library. See my post upcoming where I use the great Fleming on the Axis of Evil as reference.
I read the minutes to Uncle Prentice as I finally picked them up last Thursday or so, a week after the 4 alt brandished wire and The Dance around the corner of Administration Avenue and Vine Street and some other street; not their real names, though there is an Alabama Avenue.
Uncle Prentice likes to keep up.
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Now

Postby fox » Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:34 am

This board can begin in earnest the dissection of Mr. William Fortner-- Baptist Methodist and recently Prez in Branchville, SC, though he does not know if he was PCA or PCUSA there--in the Feb 27 listing of http://www.postpaper.com/letters.htm
It is a doozy and would love for you to help me in this teachable moment at the grass roots.
His letter stayed up a week on the bulletin board in Collinsville PO with somebody writing in the Word Amen to his closing sentiment of the Feb 27 letter. I got my suspicions as to who that was and is. My posted comments get ripped down within about 3 hours if they last that long. One woman checks her mail every day about 5. I think she is the culprit.
But Fortner's letter; exhibit A or Marney's misgivings 30 years ago, about what passes for wisdom in small towns.
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oh

Postby fox » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:03 pm

and for you coming to this discussion for the first time, virginal as it were; my companion piece to Mr. Fortner's letter of Feb 27 is an effort published Feb 6 http://www.postpaper.com/foxoped.htm
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Here

Postby fox » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:30 pm

Mr. Fortner from my heart to yours and all those 'on your side' who want to sit on the front porch with you and point to other steeples, my message is you don't have a clue as to what is inside your own front porch so who are you and your'n to point to anything.
David Currie was in the church Feb 24 2002, you now want to speak for and get amenned on the message boards of the Post Office.
I am not alone. I am with these guys in the link below.
PS. Gaddy has a lot of fans in the church you claim to know. Bad news for you, one of his books is circulating around the community and it ain't my book.

http://www.abpnews.com/867.article
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Postby Jim » Mon Mar 06, 2006 12:47 pm

F: Which raises my question for Collinsville: Who appointed Joseph Morgan's father and the Librarian and the deacon board of Collinsville Baptist Church to stand in judgment of me?

J: Which raises my question for Fox: Who appointed Fox to stand in judgment of Joseph Morgan's father and the Librarian and the deacon board of Collinsville Baptist Church?
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Postby fox » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:32 pm

What about the poem and the references to Fleming Rutledge and the Axis of Evil?
Did you like them and have you read Mr.Fortner's letter of Feb 27 in the letters link?
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Postby Jim » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:16 pm

F: What about the poem and the references to Fleming Rutledge and the Axis of Evil?

J: This is what Rutledge wrote: “The enemy lines are hard to find. We should remember that the madrasas were financed in part by the US government during the 80s when the Afghans were fighting the Soviets, and then we left Afghanistan to the tender mercies of the Taliban. The axis of evil lies here, there and everywhere.” In the first place, this was part of a Lenten sermon in which Rutledge made the point that the line between good and evil resides within the individual and not necessarily between “them” and “us.” People are or make up the only things that are “here, there, and everywhere.”

However, Rutledge did NOT say that madrasas were intentionally financed by this country, and, for my part, I don’t believe they were financed in part, either. She would be hard-pressed to prove something that outlandish. During the 80s, this country sent the materiel to Afghanistan (mainly the SAMs, but other stuff, as well) that allowed the Afghanis to expel the Soviets after some 8 long years of hell, and the madrasas had nothing to do with that. To say that this country left Afghanistan “to the tender mercies of the Taliban” is a distortion too gross even to contemplate. This country left Afghanistan to nothing and nobody because this country was never in Afghanistan, in the first place, in order to leave. What happened after the Soviets left was none of our affair, and no one in this country had a clue as to what the Taliban could or would do; or, if they (perhaps CIA) did have a clue, what do you propose the U.S. might have done in the 80s and shortly thereafter? The proper reason for intruding into Afghanistan came on 9/11, when U.S. soil was violated. Or, do you believe the U.S. should have marched into Afghanistan just as the Soviets marched out in 1989, even though a shot had not been fired against this country?
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You may

Postby fox » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:27 pm

Want to ask Fleming at http://www.generousorthodoxy.org . In my opinion she is one the greatest preachers on the planet.
Jim, I know you and I roughly are on the same side, and everyone is fair game, but to give Fortner and Dr. Morgan a pass, while you take Fleming to task on technicalities from a great sermon that made the Duke Collection strikes me as bad version of the eye of the camel parable.
Back to subject at hand; something that may be comparable to my situation
http://www.localnewsonly.com/2006lno/ne ... aptist.htm
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Postby Jim » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:47 am

F: Jim, I know you and I roughly are on the same side, and everyone is fair game, but to give Fortner and Dr. Morgan a pass, while you take Fleming to task on technicalities from a great sermon that made the Duke Collection strikes me as bad version of the eye of the camel parable.

J: This is a quote from Rutledge in her “generous orthodoxy” piece. “The articles of faith distilled in the historic Creeds and Confessions of the Church are gifts of the Holy Spirit. Christian doctrine is the foundation for a dynamic, courageous intellectual life at the frontiers of 21st-century challenges. Without basic affirmations, we are dangerously unequipped.” So…Rutledge is talking about the importance of creeds, as any good Episcopalian would, but you are affronted by the BFM stuff and insist that creeds or the signing of creeds or even the recognition of a creed is not acceptable. The congregation of your church, while not using the term “creed,” leans to the BFM stuff and also interprets both it and its importance differently from your take. Obviously, there’s a fundamental difference in your positions. You’ve made your battle to change the church for a long time now, and the church obviously is tired of the fight. Neither party is going to change.

This is the part of Rutledge you accept: “True Christian orthodoxy therefore cannot be narrow, pinched, or defensive but always spacious, adventurous and unafraid.” I have no doubt that Rutledge is a fine preacher, but do you suppose she is at sea currently, as well as a lot of others, on the basis of this statement? For instance, her denomination has been losing membership for years in this country at least largely because some members want to make it “spacious and adventurous” enough to sanction marriages of men to men or ordination of practicing homosexuals, and in the process have taken the denominational eye off matters that have to do with carrying out the gospel according to Christ. In my state, Episcopal churches are separating from the ECUSA and linking themselves to African Anglican bishoprics, in which such diversions are not even subjects for contemplation.

I did not score Rutledge on the basis of a technicality. What she said was patently untrue and couched in sarcastic language calculated to make this country appear insensitive and uncaring. And claiming that this country financed the cursed madrasas is just too big a stretch.

Comparing your situation to that of Colleyville, Texas, is an apples/oranges thing. The letter sent to the ones expelled there seems to indicate that there is more to the story than just an arbitrary expulsion. Perhaps you should allow a copy of the document sent to you announcing your expulsion and the reasons for it to be made available. The Colleyville matter involved a huge outlay of money, relocation of a church, and also seems to be rife with misconceptions or outright untruths with regard to the church’s membership. The population of the small city has almost doubled since 1990, and it’s located near Grapevine, Arlington and actually is a suburb of Ft. Worth. What those expelled from a church of perhaps 2,000 (the statistics in the article range wildly) would probably affirm is that it would be better to start a new church in the area in question than tear up what is already a good thing. In any case, the relocation plan, according to the article, has been scrapped. Wonder why?

I don’t understand the “bad version of the eye of the camel parable” thing. Anyway, I think it was the eye of the needle, and maybe that’s why I don’t understand.
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Jim

Postby fox » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:47 pm

Taking you seriously here. Gonna print out your last response and think about it over the weekend. In meantime gonna attempt to bring this exchange to the attention of Fleming herself and if we can get her to come to this board, well just maybe this little dialogue was worth it after all.....sfox
Did you ever look at Ron Rash's poetry link? I hope so :)
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Postby Jim » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:28 pm

F: Did you ever look at Ron Rash's poetry link? I hope so

J: Yes, and I’m glad you mentioned him. Of course, I had to do more than just read them…I had to do some re-reading. Fascinating and rewarding pieces – the ones that were listed. I’m a heavy user of the library, so I’ll be looking up Rash’s books, including his novels. Thanks.
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Re: Jim

Postby Jonathan » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:16 pm

fox wrote:See my posts in Books. Thank you are gonna have to have Tyson's book Blood done Sign my Name, if for nothing else the episodes in the memoir with his poet friend, Thad Stem; who had the keys to the Duke Library in the 70's.

Collinsville Baptist young adult class is now using BaptistWay SS material. Further proof the church is infested with "liberals" if you use the SBC definition.
In the Fundy SBC column however, I have been gagged and the Duke kid yesterday got away with outrageous remark about income inequities in America. He said they didn't matter cause Bill Gates pays more taxxes than folks like me.
Made me nauseous. I left the room. I have yet to hear of any other folks in the class challenging the remark while they were looking at the Book of Amos. In my view makes a mockery of the Sunday School literature they are using. I doubt Dukey will ever listen to Jim Wallis magisterial Address from Furman of Tuesday night, though I could see two of his brothers listening if they got nothing better to do.
I do hope Mark will have a conversation with Matthew, that would be 2 and three later this Spring after the wedding, and maybe Matthew set the record straight in Sunday School even though he has joined the Methodist church. Wouldn't that be wild, Truett here is gagged in Sunday School and Yale UMC with almost as much SS Status as Ms Wilkins could speak at will.
Yall have a nice day :lol: :lol: :D :D :lol: :!: :!: :P
Hey MarkM, if you are out there or Kenny or BobK lets you know about this one....WAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!


Sounds like "Dukey" is wise beyond his years. The issue is not income inequity. The issue is wealth accumulation. The Jim Wallises of the world (Wallises of the world unite?) continue their artful dodge by complaining about who makes what. They fear working to establish a system where all can accumulate wealth and, slowly but surely, loose the need to be dependent on an income redistribution system that keeps the redistributors (i.e. those who don't produce anything of value) in power.

Rather than seeking to teach men to fish, they want to make sure that everyone gets just one fish less than enough so that all will need to rely upon the nanny.

Its a shame that there is not a national party that is serious about this.
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Dan Vestal

Postby fox » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:27 pm

has written a piece that has outraged some my Uncle Prentice's retired military community in Fayetteville NC. Apparently some of them come down on the side of you, Jonathan and Mark Morgan versus Vestal and Jim Wallis. It splits families as Mark's brother John Prince IIIrs is pursuing a career with Habitat for Humanity and another brother has been brainwashed at Yale Div school, though many of us are yet to explore the extent of Matty's new vision. For sure the household conversations, gamesmanship one upsmanship and just general ship should be interesting in that gene pool for generations to come, especially if there is any take on the new strand of April 1, no fooling here.
Hope to get a link to Vestal, the man who was at FBC Midland Texas when Your Dub was kicking the Bottle down the street with the Methodists in mid 80's.
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