One dead US soldier today ...

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One dead US soldier today ...

Postby Norm » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:57 pm

... otherwise if there were none, we would have a lot of explaining to do, that is, wouldn't we look a bit silly using Soviet-era facilities for the interrogation of off the books war prisioners?

Excerpted from the Wahington Post:

The CIA has been hiding and interrogating some of its most important al Qaeda captives at a Soviet-era compound in Eastern Europe, according to U.S. and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement ... the arrangement has been increasingly debated within the CIA, where considerable concern lingers about the legality, morality and practicality of holding even unrepentant terrorists in such isolation and secrecy, perhaps for the duration of their lives. Mid-level and senior CIA officers began arguing two years ago that the system was unsustainable and diverted the agency from its unique espionage mission....

When we experience at least one dead soldier a day, we get to showcase the goodness of our democracy and extra-interrogate our enemy. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

I thank God that we have good we-have-the-moral-ground repub leaders that refuse to be like those nasty publicans.
Norm
 

Postby Chaplain Joe » Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:38 pm

I am sorry - but I am not sure what you meant by this post. Your title is "One Dead US Solder Today" and then you talk about that as a means to extra-interrogate a prisoner. I get that you may be writing in a "sarcastic style" to make your point - but I think I lost that point along the way. You could you please clarify.
Thanks
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Postby Chaplain Joe » Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:52 pm

wow - sorry for the large amount of typing mistakes in the previous post. I will learn not to try to type when folks are coming into the office. It will get better -
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Postby Norm » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:59 am

Chaplain Joe wrote:wow - sorry for the large amount of typing mistakes in the previous post. I will learn not to try to type when folks are coming into the office. It will get better -


Chaplain Joe, it is a sarcastic post, poorly written as it is. I will be more explicit. What we are likely doing and seeking to do with government approval undermines the value of human rights that this country espouses. For some, dead soldiers justify torturing our enemy. Where is the credibility of our voice when our soldiers are prisoners of war and are subject to torture? And that is only the selfish reason to abstain from torture. We shame ourselves if we assume the tactics of those we consider barbaric or, at least, less civil. I get just as angry as any neo-con, for said behavior justifies one's anger. How said anger is channeled makes all the difference, however, and will more or less lend credibility for what we are about in Iraq and elsewhere. When we assume the immoral methods we deplore in others, there is still the conflict, but we have to look even harder to determine the enemy, thus the publican and sinner passage.
Norm
 

Postby Chaplain Joe » Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:01 pm

I agree with you concerning the issue of torture. It isn't good enough for us to refrain from torture simply so we can blame others for the torture they perform. That is the reason the US has the standard of no torture. It is the moral stance of the US.
Have you ever wondered how strange it seems on the surface that we have rules on fighting wars? We may find it necessary to go to war but we only fight it and/or kill people in certain ways. Strange? Compare that to, say, the indesriminate non-directed killing thorugh IEDs in Iraq. Rules to fight wars...like the Geneva Convention, etc. But such a stance is not an oxymoron. It speaks of the morale stance a nation chooses tot ake even whenf acing the need to fight. Look how far we have come from carpet bombing in WWII - to now we have the need to apologize when we kill one extra person after a "smart-bomb" goes through the AC duct to get a headquarters and hardly touches any surrounding building. Our desire to hold a high standard to life even directs the way our nation would fight its wars - even at the risk sometimes to our own troops.
All that to say - we need to take the high road in terms of interogation - as we do. NOTE: What other country worries about having "embarrassed" a prisoner? How many other countries work so hard at overseeing and holding people accountable for the way we do interrogation? Are there errors and times when someone goes beyond the limits? We, as a nation, even make those known by holding them accountable.
What I see happening now is a heavy discussion in what constitutes "torture" from a wide starting point. It is good in that it makes us look at ourselves and never take for granted the way we see the value of human life.
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