Delay indicted

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Delay indicted

Postby Haruo » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:51 pm

I take it. The Washington Post just emailed me to that effect.

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Postby mlovell » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:01 pm

According to the Dallas Morning News and the Houston Chronicle, even more dependable sources of news on DeLay than the Washington Post, IT'S TRUE!

For which fact I give thanks to God.

:)
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Postby jerryl » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:25 pm

And not like it wasn't expected either. Repub. House leadership immediatly had a plan shifting most of DeLay's duties over to Roy Blunt.

And long-distance neurological diagnostician and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is facing a criminal inquiry into his not-so-blind trust and insider trading.

Not going to be much to talk about during the mid-term elections is there? :D

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Postby William Thornton » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:19 pm

This might be a 'curb your enthusiasm' moment for democrats, ask KB Hutchinson about the DA. Conspiracy? Campaign finance laws? Both a bit foggy...let the chips fall where they may.

Nonetheless, I never cared for DeLay...a bit too much texas swagger for my tastes.
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DeLay Indictment

Postby Lamar Wadsworth » Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:54 pm

I know that my good old Roosevelt Democrat father is smiling down from heaven on this one. The news of Newt Gingrich's downfall pulled him back from the brink of death and gave him a couple more good years. Dad's affection for DeLay was even less than he had for Gingrich if that is possible. As for why it took Earle the DA this long to come up with an indictment, my guess is that the man doesn't like to lose cases, so he's very careful about having all his ducks in a row before going to the grand jury. Accusations of politically motivated prosecution ring hollow. Earle seems to be an equal-opportunity DA who has gone after Democrats as well as Republicans. This is even better than Trent Lott's remarks at Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday party about how much better the country would be today if Thurmond and his Dixiecrat ticket had won the White House in 1948, since Lott's ill-considered remarks were not grounds for indictment.
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Postby mlovell » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:04 pm

Wm -- This might be a 'curb your enthusiasm' moment for democrats, ask KB Hutchinson about the DA. Conspiracy? Campaign finance laws? Both a bit foggy...let the chips fall where they may.

Nonetheless, I never cared for DeLay...a bit too much texas swagger for my tastes.


Rather talk about Frist?
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Postby William Thornton » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:51 am

mlovell wrote:
Wm -- This might be a 'curb your enthusiasm' moment for democrats, ask KB Hutchinson about the DA. Conspiracy? Campaign finance laws? Both a bit foggy...let the chips fall where they may.

Nonetheless, I never cared for DeLay...a bit too much texas swagger for my tastes.


Rather talk about Frist?


wm: I think Frist will come out OK on his stock. Were I a betting man, there is money to be made on the outcome of DeLay's case. I'd wager he will not be convicted of anything and probably not tried for anything.

Lamar, I am happy to see some red meat for democrats to snarl over but the DA there in TX didn't present a case on Hutchinson, or so it was reported, so I'm not sure the lengthy process was spent so he could build a case that he wouldn't lose at trial.

DeLay is no peach in my view but the value of the indictment was that he would be forced to resign his house leadership position, not that it would lead to a conviction. A little irresistable incentive, eh? Let those smelly Texas cow chips fall where they may.
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Postby Jonathan » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:08 am

Mark me down as wanting the chips to fall where they may.

If he broke the law, I hope that he gets the max. Same for Frist.

Given how the Repubs on the Hill are showing that they can be even bigger spenders than the Dems they replaced, I'm not sure how much real conservative loyalty the House leadership inspires anyway.
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Postby Wade » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:02 am

Just always amazes me how the right likes to talk about MORALS until they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, (worse or not worse than getting caught with their hands in someone's pants?)

Where's the moral war drums now? It's so quiet out there.

To be fair, being accused is not the same as being guilty. We'll see. The religious right might learn to not get quite so close to someone their not willing to share some dirt with.
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Postby Sandy » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:37 am

William wrote:This might be a 'curb your enthusiasm' moment for democrats, ask KB Hutchinson about the DA. Conspiracy? Campaign finance laws? Both a bit foggy...let the chips fall where they may.

Nonetheless, I never cared for DeLay...a bit too much texas swagger for my tastes.


Kay got off on a technicality, not because she proved her innocence. In this case, some of the evidence comes from some statements Tom made in public, which were quoted by a newspaper in his home county. This might be pretty cut and dried.

At any rate, local television news station polls are showing pretty widespread dissatisfaction with Tom in his current district. Prior to the indictment he was in a dead heat race for his seat with Nick Lampson, a formidable Democrat from Beaumont who was a victim of Tom's gerrymandering. Now, it appears Lampson has pulled ahead. Some of the county and state officials who have ridden Tom's coattails for a while are already repositioning themselves. November 2006 may be quite a delightful month for Democrats and independents around here.

Frankly, I hope the indictment turns into a guilty verdict, and the evidence seems to indicate that it will. This is the Republican achilles heel, money and how it is used. Tom has been chided on many occasions for sloppy campaign finance reporting and difficulties detecting where his campaign contributions have come from, and where they have gone. And as far as Frist goes, well, he's not the first high profile person who got caught and prosecuted for insider stock trading. It's a bit suspicious that someone who has his senate connections would dump that kind of stock that quickly before a major drop in its value.
Last edited by Sandy on Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby William Thornton » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:38 am

Wade wrote:Just always amazes me how the right likes to talk about MORALS until they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, (worse or not worse than getting caught with their hands in someone's pants?)

Where's the moral war drums now? It's so quiet out there.

To be fair, being accused is not the same as being guilty. We'll see. The religious right might learn to not get quite so close to someone their not willing to share some dirt with.


wm: Wait a minute, Wade. What more at this stage could be said than J and I have said, let the chips fall? If he's guilty, convict and sentence him. You are only a state away - can you give me one or two sentences that explain exactly what he is accused of doing? Were a dem on the hotseat this kind of thing would still have more than a bit of pungency on the prosecutorial side.

On a broader scale the campaign finance stuff is a mess. Look for scotus to toss finance laws aside.
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Postby Jonathan » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:39 am

Wade wrote:Just always amazes me how the right likes to talk about MORALS until they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, (worse or not worse than getting caught with their hands in someone's pants?)

Where's the moral war drums now? It's so quiet out there.

To be fair, being accused is not the same as being guilty. We'll see. The religious right might learn to not get quite so close to someone their not willing to share some dirt with.


So Delay was caught with his hand the cookie jar or not? We know that, after a number of grand juries, this TX DA has an indictment.

As far as the right sticking with Delay, let's see how this thing goes first, shall we. If the right sticks with Delay after he has been proven to have broken the law, then I'll have the same thing to say about those members of the right that I said about the left who stuck by former Pres. Clinton (after he both broke the law and got caught with his hands...well, I'm sure you remember).

Like I said above, if Delay has broken the law, I hope that he gets the maximum sentence. Of course, then I hope that we make sure to do the same to every other representative who has done what Delay is accused of doing.

And hey, just for fun, what are the odds that if Delay is not convicted, Sandy will claim that he got off on a technicality? :)
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Postby Sandy » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:46 am

Jonathan wrote:
Wade wrote:Just always amazes me how the right likes to talk about MORALS until they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, (worse or not worse than getting caught with their hands in someone's pants?)

Where's the moral war drums now? It's so quiet out there.

To be fair, being accused is not the same as being guilty. We'll see. The religious right might learn to not get quite so close to someone their not willing to share some dirt with.


So Delay was caught with his hand the cookie jar or not? We know that, after a number of grand juries, this TX DA has an indictment.

As far as the right sticking with Delay, let's see how this thing goes first, shall we. If the right sticks with Delay after he has been proven to have broken the law, then I'll have the same thing to say about those members of the right that I said about the left who stuck by former Pres. Clinton (after he both broke the law and got caught with his hands...well, I'm sure you remember).

Like I said above, if Delay has broken the law, I hope that he gets the maximum sentence. Of course, then I hope that we make sure to do the same to every other representative who has done what Delay is accused of doing.


That might be quite a long list of them. Granted, there might even be a few Democrats on that list, but by and large, it would wipe out the Republican congressional leadership. :wink:

Clinton, to my recollection of the way the case came out, was exhonerated. If you're willing to let the "chips fall where they may," then you've got to let Clinton go. He was cleared, and it didn't even require a presidential pardon to get it done.
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Postby Jonathan » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:57 am

Sandy wrote:
Jonathan wrote:
Wade wrote:Just always amazes me how the right likes to talk about MORALS until they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, (worse or not worse than getting caught with their hands in someone's pants?)

Where's the moral war drums now? It's so quiet out there.

To be fair, being accused is not the same as being guilty. We'll see. The religious right might learn to not get quite so close to someone their not willing to share some dirt with.


So Delay was caught with his hand the cookie jar or not? We know that, after a number of grand juries, this TX DA has an indictment.

As far as the right sticking with Delay, let's see how this thing goes first, shall we. If the right sticks with Delay after he has been proven to have broken the law, then I'll have the same thing to say about those members of the right that I said about the left who stuck by former Pres. Clinton (after he both broke the law and got caught with his hands...well, I'm sure you remember).

Like I said above, if Delay has broken the law, I hope that he gets the maximum sentence. Of course, then I hope that we make sure to do the same to every other representative who has done what Delay is accused of doing.


That might be quite a long list of them. Granted, there might even be a few Democrats on that list, but by and large, it would wipe out the Republican congressional leadership. :wink:

Clinton, to my recollection of the way the case came out, was exhonerated. If you're willing to let the "chips fall where they may," then you've got to let Clinton go. He was cleared, and it didn't even require a presidential pardon to get it done.


Well, he was acquitted in Senate on the grounds that his perjury didn't rise to the level of "high crimes and misdemeanors". However, upon leaving office, the Arkansas bar initiated disbarment proceedings and, based on the evidence of his perjury in 1998, was ordered by the Arkansas Supreme Court and upheld by the US Supreme Court.
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Postby Hal Eaton » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:27 pm

I caught the "700 Club" on the tube this afternoon (while the rest of you were working). Pat Robertson interviewed Delay.

Amidst the mutual admiration expressed by the two, they spent most of the time attacking the personality, character, politics and work of the DA who brought the indictment. Delay mentioned, several times, that he had not been allowed to testify before the grand juries.

Both recommended a Jerry Bridges book, "Trusting God: When You Are Hurting." (?)

Baptists in Congress have not appeared too bright when their conduct has been questioned.
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Postby wilkey » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:48 pm

I was wondering what Sugarcreek Baptist Church thought about this. They mailed out an endorsement of Tom last fall. Learned that all the Houston Radio talk show hosts are claiming Tom is being unfairly attacked by a political opportunist. Word has it that Tom is looking for the chapter and verse in Purpose Driven Life to show how he did not divide up Texas into districts to benefit corporation heads.
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Postby jerryl » Sat Oct 01, 2005 9:55 am

Hal Eaton wrote:Delay mentioned, several times, that he had not been allowed to testify before the grand juries.


According to the DA Earle and the foreman of the grand jury William Gibson, DeLay was offered the opportunity to testify (under oath) and did give the DA a written statement that was given to the grand jury. The inditement was made on the last day of the grand jury term to give DeLay every opportunity to testify.

From Dallas Morning News.

Somebody's not telling the truth here.

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Postby Hal Eaton » Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:23 pm

All this talk by high-minded folk about "indicted only" and "innocent until proven guilty" and "wait until all the facts are in" and "the other side did it, too" leaves me with but one alternative.

Being a low-minded type, I can only offer an opinion (is that so new herein?). I say the sucker is guilty.


Woody Allen once said, "Sex is dirty, but only if you do it right." I wonder if the praise heaped on politicos for having been effective within the party's strictures might prove the same point about politics.
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Postby Sandy » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:30 pm

I live in Tom's district. There are some Republicans who are mouthing about how this is political, how this is just like many other cases the Travis County D.A. has done before, where nothing came of it, etc. etc. To give credit where credit is due, however, there are some Republicans, including some well-respected leaders in this area, who do want to see ethical government and aren't automatically jumping over to Tom's side. Senator Hutchinson's indictment, which came from the same place and which she dodged on a technicality, probably ended her political career. She's stepping down from the Senate, declined to run for Governor when she saw the poll numbers and probably encountered some Republicans who want to see the party retain its hold on this state, and know that continued corruption will bring it down.

The county that forms the heart of Tom's congressional district, Fort Bend County, is made up of some of Houston's wealthier, more prosperous suburbs, particularly on the east side of the county, where Tom is from. This is a heavily Republican area that has dominated county politics here for at least 20 years. From the County Judge's office to the Sheriff Department to local precinct managers to constables, the corruption in local government here boggles the mind. I've lived here 11 years now, and I can't remember a time when someone in either the county government, sheriff's department or the precinct leadership of the road and bridge department wasn't under investigation or indictment. The big business in this area is real estate development, and that gets them every time. Yes, most of the county politicos are in the real estate business. And while it may be a heavily Republican area, it is also one of the most unchurched areas in the state, with fewer than 15 percent of the people claiming any kind of church affiliation. Bad combination. Tom's been in it with these people for years, they're the ones that put him in Congress.

The light at the end of the tunnel may be approaching, however, and we may be Delay free next November, if he doesn't go to prison sooner than that. Some of the more respected and influential Republican leaders in the county are either remaining silent, or are speaking out against him. Public opinion shows that a majority of registered voters think he's guilty but he'll use his power to get off. Even if he manages to pull strings and avoid a trial, or gets off on a technicality (the evidence is quite substantial and shows him to be clearly in violation of state law) he may have to go the way of dear Kay, and step down graciously to avoid an embarrassing defeat at the polls.
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Postby Sandy » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:42 pm

Chris wrote:I couldn't wait to see what Fox News Channel's spin on this would be. And there he was.....Britt Hume trying to smear Travis County D.A. Ronnie Earle...the guy who indicted DeLay.


Fact: Travis County D.A. Ronnie Earle did not indict Tom DeLay. District attorneys can't hand down indictments. A grand jury, after hearing evidence, handed down the indictment. Earle will just do the prosecuting.

Seems the only local politician standing with DeLay is a local county commissioner who has a reputation for corruption.

http://www.brazosriver.com
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Postby Sandy » Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:46 pm

The Austin American-Statesman had a couple of good articles on both indictments today. I think their site is a subscription one, but you can give it a try.

Apparently, there may be up to a dozen indictments handed down, and there is a mountain of evidence. According to yesterday's Houston Chronicle, DeLay declined the opportunity to testify on his own behalf because of "other possible indictments pending."

Juanita, at the World's Most Dangerous Beauty Parlor, has an interesting perspective on things.

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