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Gender identity

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 6:04 pm
by Haruo
Perhaps more divisive than sexual orientation, it seems to me, is the matter of gender identity. It goes far beyond "What is your preferred pronoun?" Have any of your churches or associations had to deal with these issues, or chosen to minister to the trans population.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 9:34 pm
by JE Pettibone
Haruo wrote:Perhaps more divisive than sexual orientation, it seems to me, is the matter of gender identity. It goes far beyond "What is your preferred pronoun?" Have any of your churches or associations had to deal with these issues, or chosen to minister to the trans population.


Ed: Hauro, I am not sure of the distinction you make here,

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 1:07 am
by Haruo
Between sex and gender? Orientation and identity? I'm not 100% up on this stuff myself. Three recent events I've attended have asked those registering to put their preferred pronouns on their nametags. Use of particular restroom facilities (especially in North Carolina) is another facet. Hiring, medical coverage, marriage are some other areas where it might be a concern. In secular contexts, at least here in Seattle, and in the shapenote and Esperanto movements it's becoming a worldwide topic of interest.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 4:03 pm
by James
I think HBC might literally fracture itself to death thinking about the trans folks in our church.

On all the sexuality issues, the Bible is almost silent. There are a few whispers about homosexuality and silence abounds over the rest of the debate. If God is as upset about homosexuality as the homophobic literalists think He is, why did He not make himself clear about it and the other sexual identity problems in the Ten Commandments.

Thanks for bringing our attention to the rest of the problem.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:52 am
by Tim Bonney
Haruo wrote:Perhaps more divisive than sexual orientation, it seems to me, is the matter of gender identity. It goes far beyond "What is your preferred pronoun?" Have any of your churches or associations had to deal with these issues, or chosen to minister to the trans population.


Sorry I didn't see this sooner! I know several people who consider themselves to be trans or gender fluid. But, so far, I don't know anyone in the small town I'm pastoring in. So it doesn't give a lot of opportunity for ministry. But, the Reconciling (Welcoming and Affirming) statement my church adopted includes full acceptance of LGBTQ+ people.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:55 am
by Tim Bonney
Haruo wrote:Between sex and gender? Orientation and identity? I'm not 100% up on this stuff myself. Three recent events I've attended have asked those registering to put their preferred pronouns on their nametags. Use of particular restroom facilities (especially in North Carolina) is another facet. Hiring, medical coverage, marriage are some other areas where it might be a concern. In secular contexts, at least here in Seattle, and in the shapenote and Esperanto movements it's becoming a worldwide topic of interest.


The conversation does continue to evolve. But as I've done some teaching on sexuality topics, biological gender, gender identity, and sexual orientation are all different categories. So there is a good bit of complicated terminology that changes often that young adults seem to take in stride better than my generation does.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:57 am
by Neil Heath
On the subject of gender identity, I saw a cartoon where Jesus said he identified as male even though the virgin birth meant that he didn't have a "Y" chromosome. Never considered that before.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:31 am
by Tim Bonney
Neil Heath wrote:On the subject of gender identity, I saw a cartoon where Jesus said he identified as male even though the virgin birth meant that he didn't have a "Y" chromosome. Never considered that before.


That hadn’t occurred to me either. But then I’m not sure we know how the biology of the virgin birth actually works.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:54 am
by Haruo
If necessary, God can always raise up a Y chromosome from the potato bugs under the paving stones. Seems to me Jesus is up in the air, but the Archetypal Christ has to be both.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:58 am
by Sandy
Neil Heath wrote:On the subject of gender identity, I saw a cartoon where Jesus said he identified as male even though the virgin birth meant that he didn't have a "Y" chromosome. Never considered that before.


Now that's something that can wake you up to think about in the middle of the night.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:42 am
by Haruo
I posted it on Facebook, after changing "cartoon" to "place".

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:45 am
by Haruo
A response from shapenoter Chris Noren (related to Keith? don't recall):
Old genetics joke: The H in “Jesus H. Christ” stands for Haploid.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:24 am
by KeithE
Haruo wrote:A response from shapenoter Chris Noren (related to Keith? don't recall):
Old genetics joke: The H in “Jesus H. Christ” stands for Haploid.


My cousin Ron Noren (Portland OR) has a 35-45 year old son Chris (wife- Lexi). I believe he went to Southwestern Sem in Texas (but have no idea what he is up to now or if he is a "shapenoter").

In all likelihood it is this guy. Christopher Noren - LinkedIn PHD from UC Berkeley who is a long time Sacred Harp singer/composer, "Chemist, Homebrewer, and Irrepressible Raconteur" from MA. He knows what I didn’t know - what a “haploid” is.

I had one mutual friend with this Christopher Noren that being David Ivey who goes to our church and is an active Sacred Harp conductor and my daughter's SS teacher - good guy. I believe rvaughn knows David Ivey.

Re: Gender identity

PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:52 pm
by Rvaughn
Yes, I know both Chris and David. Good guys.