Rich Man and Lazarus

[Dave Roberts]

Last night, I read Jesus' parable of "The Rich Man and Lazarus." As I thought on this, my mind kept asking, "Isn't our current trickle-down economics exactly what the rich man in Jesus story was practicing?" How does this strike you?

[Haruo]

Of course. Reaganomics is nothing if not biblical.

[William Thornton]

Well, AOC has prounounced judgment on capitalism. The fault seems to be the creation of greater wealth in varying degrees for greater numbers of people than other systems.

If my pastor offered up this parable as some kind of economics lession, I'd be polite and sit still for it.

[Haruo]

There's a strong sermon on animal rights hidden in the first eight or so verses of 2 Samuel 12.

[Dave Roberts]

[Sandy]

Ms. Ocasio-Cortez is a Democrat on the left side of her party. So she attracts the attention of conservative Republicans who want to point to her as an example of what the Democrats are up to. It's been pretty clear that the electoral fortunes of the GOP have waned considerably since 2016, an election they won based mostly on election rules and not votes. So they are dragging out their "shore up the base" rhetoric, mainly the "How in the world can you support a party that kills babies?" and all that goes along with that, and they dig up the politicians among the Democrats whose views contrast the most with some of their own. Keep in mind that in a District where Democrats hold a 29% advantage in voter registration, Ocasio-Cortez won her seat by 63% of the vote over her Republican opponent. Her presence among the Democrats is only a demonstration of the diversity of their party, not of some monolithic perspective on economics. I don't agree with all her views, but there are a couple of things about her I like, including her position on universal health care and that her social media presence is as large as that of Trump and she frustrates the daylights out of him by refuting and countering his idiotic tweets. At any rate, her views on the left are not anywhere as scary or extreme as any one of a dozen GOP reps you could find who are card carrying, flag waving members of the Ku Klux Klan.

[William Thornton]

Sandy pronounces a cakewalk for the dems in 2020...but I hear that candidates actually have to get votes.

[Sandy]

[Rvaughn]

[Haruo]

[Sandy]

I am making that statement using the same context Republicans use when referencing Democrats as "socialists." Even Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders, who self-identify using the term, are not "socialist" in the Marxist political and economic sense of the Russian, former Eastern European, Chinese and Venezuelan brands of the mix. There have been some members of Congress who were klansmen, Louisiana's David Duke being perhaps one of the most recent. Making the leap to the klan is the same thing the GOP does to Democrats and socialism and that's my point.

There are several Republicans whose associations and connections with the alt-right and whose positions in recent campaigns could be interpreted as sympathetic to white supremacists or white nationalism. Other than Trump himself, Steve King probably tops that list.

https://prospect.org/article/gop-now-wh ... ytime-soon

[Rvaughn]

[Dave Roberts]

I'm intrigued that my question about the application of scripture descended to GOP racism. I've noticed lately that an honest question about scripture or doctrine seems to regularly descend to mere politics. I have no doubt of American racism in many quarters. My own prejudice these days is against prejudiced people.

[Rvaughn]

[Tim Bonney]

Really there is no way to separate politics and theology unless your theology calls on your to disengage yourself from society. But if you believe that your theology requires you to try to make the world different/better than there is just no way to avoid politics.

[Dave Roberts]

My question revolves around the fact that the rich man was expected to share his wealth to care for the poor man at his gate. His condemnation is based on the fact that he did not. Like today's "trickle down" theory, it did not work because the flaw in our human nature is that we prefer to enhance our personal position, like getting our names on the Forbes' List of Billionaires. His plea is most often read as a personal plea for a drop of water. What is frightening is the dialogue about his brothers, they who could also not see the need. My question is whether this parable offers an indirect condemnation of the system as well as of the personal actions of the rich man. Indeed, can support of the rich man continue to create the ego to close our hearts to the needs of those around us?

[Tim Bonney]

[Rvaughn]

[Dave Roberts]

I found a book in a hidden corner of my library that I read 25 years ago that probably just now incubated into my thinking. It is "The Rich Christians and Poor Lazarus" by Helmut Gollwitzer, a German theologian and ethicist. I agree with individual responsibility, but Gollwitzer argues from the parable for our influence on society. In other words, to pray, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven," is not just a prayer for Jesus' return but it is reporting for duty to create a more just structure in this world until he comes.

[Haruo]

[Dave Roberts]

[Haruo]

I think the whole capitalistic system depends on greed for its vitality, and that cooperation should be preferred over competition, but I don't know of an equitable and peaceable way to bring the shift about. And we live in the twilight of labor, unless climate change is even more devastating than predicted. I do think the renewed emphasis in Republican ruling circles is fueled in part by the hopes of some who don't publicly acknowledge the real and imminent effects of climate change to arrange to survive the demise of life on earth. I don't think there will be enough lunar, Martian, or orbital sustainable colonies to accommodate the bulk of the population. I wonder how the colonial economies will be organized. But I don't expect to live to find out.

[Tim Bonney]

[Tim Bonney]

By the way, my view is that the US church has swung too far towards Christian morality and virtue only being about individual actions when it appears to me that the Bible often speaks of the role of the entire Church in society and not just individuals. This individualism seems to me to be a peculiarity of US Christianity rather than something found in scripture.

[KeithE]