Medishare and the like

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Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:46 pm

Reminds me a lot of the Bishop's Storehouse of LDS fame. I'm interested in your takes on the ethics (and morality even) of social services provided as a ministry but only to the elect. Personally, I think it's in effect, if not in intent, unchristian and unchristlike, but I can imagine possibly participating in it for financial reasons, and I know there are many who do so without having deeply investigated the spiritual implications. But then, I'm in favor of universal single-payer health insurance/care, and don't believe that having your own fire insurance ought to relieve one of the duty to support the Fire Department, nor that non-smokers should be allowed to pay a reduced tax rate for either one.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby William Thornton » Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:54 pm

Is a certain faith required or just a marketing tool?
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Rvaughn » Tue Dec 25, 2018 10:01 pm

Leland, first I want to mention that it looks like BaptistLife somehow quadruple posted your post. Don't know if you noticed that.

Second, I don't know anything about the Bishop's Storehouse of the LDS fame, or very little about Medishare. (I found their web site HERE, but haven't looked at it otherwise.) I am aware of a couple of families who participate in some kind of medical sharing. I don't see anything unchristian and un-Christlike about them trying to find something they can afford to help with the medical expenses of their family. You say you are in favor of a universal single-payer health insurance/care, but we in fact do not have that. We do not have affordable healthcare for everyone, so why would a family's attempt to find what is affordable for them be un-Christlike?
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:30 am

William Thornton wrote:Is a certain faith required or just a marketing tool?

My understanding, based on talking with a member of Fremont Baptist whose whole family is enrolled in it, is that they require membership in a Christian church (not sure what the definition is), and a letter from the pastor attesting to your Biblical lifestyle (again not sure of the parameters).
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Wed Dec 26, 2018 12:47 am

I'm not surprised to hear about the quadruple post. The computer was engaging in a work slowdown, and I know I pushed Submit more than once before it "took". And then it closed the window and when I got back in I was surprised to find it had posted. But I only saw one copy (and I looked!).

Rvaughn wrote:I am aware of a couple of families who participate in some kind of medical sharing. I don't see anything unchristian and un-Christlike about them trying to find something they can afford to help with the medical expenses of their family. You say you are in favor of a universal single-payer health insurance/care, but we in fact do not have that. We do not have affordable healthcare for everyone, so why would a family's attempt to find what is affordable for them be un-Christlike?
I am not saying that a family should not seek affordable health insurance. But when it causes people to prefer cheap for us over equitable to all, I think it runs contrary at least to what I think Christ calls us to do. If accepting coverage because it is cheaper for me even though it makes the coverage available to others *more* expensive (which is related to the effect on society of private schools) it seems to me that ethical issues arise which worry me, though I have not thought them all the way through yet.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:24 am

Haruo wrote:I am not saying that a family should not seek affordable health insurance. But when it causes people to prefer cheap for us over equitable to all, I think it runs contrary at least to what I think Christ calls us to do.


So you would be willing to pay a much higher rate for your insurance so I would not have to due to my pre-existing conditions?

When we left the states just under 5 years ago, my required health insurance was more than 1/2 my salary. I think it is unchristlike to ask someone else who is healthy to pay more just so I can have. They are not responsible for me and my health insurance.

If Christ was equitable to all, then universalism would be the truth... not saved by grace (His part) through faith (our response).

I disagree with your point at this time, since you have not thought it through. I will go the route of shared healthcare when we return if my employer doesn't offer.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:06 am

What's health care like in Dubai?
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Jon Estes » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Haruo wrote:What's health care like in Dubai?


Required. To get something that covers beyond limited emergency is expensive. We pay very low for that coverage.

I had surgery last year and paid out of my pocket. Went to wrong hospital for an emergency and chose to stay when they found something not an emergecy which needed care (major infection).

Now, the cost for such is way below US costs. 4 days in private room... Surgery to insert stent between kidney and bladder... 6000.00 USD. Another surgery to remove... 800.00... 1 full night and day in Iranian Hispital

Good service.

To get a good insurance with my previous issues is about 34,000.00 USD annually.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Sandy » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:53 pm

Jon Estes wrote:
Haruo wrote:I am not saying that a family should not seek affordable health insurance. But when it causes people to prefer cheap for us over equitable to all, I think it runs contrary at least to what I think Christ calls us to do.


So you would be willing to pay a much higher rate for your insurance so I would not have to due to my pre-existing conditions?

When we left the states just under 5 years ago, my required health insurance was more than 1/2 my salary. I think it is unchristlike to ask someone else who is healthy to pay more just so I can have. They are not responsible for me and my health insurance.

If Christ was equitable to all, then universalism would be the truth... not saved by grace (His part) through faith (our response).

I disagree with your point at this time, since you have not thought it through. I will go the route of shared healthcare when we return if my employer doesn't offer.


Insurance is a shared cost system regardless of pre-existing conditions coverage. It's based on a percentage of risk and on the overall average cost of health care of everyone in a shared group, not on the actual individual cost of health care. There's a percentage of revenue calculated as "profit" in both insurance and in health care itself which drives up the cost and skews the perception of coverage of pre-existing conditions. The idea that "sharing" in the cost of someone else's pre-existing conditions is "not fair" is based on consideration of health insurance and health care as a commodity off of which profit can be made, higher profit than most other "commodities" because protecting one's life and preventing pain drives up the cost. In our current privatized, for-profit health care system, half of what is paid by everyone, healthy or not, goes to the profit margin. On the other hand, in a system where health care is considered a basic human right, and a necessity to the sanctity of life, the overall cost is equalized considerably because the actual cost of the health care drops by half, so the dollar amount collected from everyone also drops.


What Jon is saying about health care in Dubai is for non-citizens. If I read the information correctly, citizens (who are a minority of the population) do not pay for their health care. I guess they take the cost out of what the expatriates pay.


In countries with single-payer, government operated health care systems, everyone pays the same, and what they are paying for is access to the system, not the actual cost of their care. Since there is no profit to be made, the money collected easily covers the cost of operating the system, including what is paid to the providers.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Jon Estes » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:54 am

Sandy wrote:
Jon Estes wrote:
Haruo wrote:I am not saying that a family should not seek affordable health insurance. But when it causes people to prefer cheap for us over equitable to all, I think it runs contrary at least to what I think Christ calls us to do.


So you would be willing to pay a much higher rate for your insurance so I would not have to due to my pre-existing conditions?

When we left the states just under 5 years ago, my required health insurance was more than 1/2 my salary. I think it is unchristlike to ask someone else who is healthy to pay more just so I can have. They are not responsible for me and my health insurance.

If Christ was equitable to all, then universalism would be the truth... not saved by grace (His part) through faith (our response).

I disagree with your point at this time, since you have not thought it through. I will go the route of shared healthcare when we return if my employer doesn't offer.


Insurance is a shared cost system regardless of pre-existing conditions coverage. It's based on a percentage of risk and on the overall average cost of health care of everyone in a shared group, not on the actual individual cost of health care. There's a percentage of revenue calculated as "profit" in both insurance and in health care itself which drives up the cost and skews the perception of coverage of pre-existing conditions. The idea that "sharing" in the cost of someone else's pre-existing conditions is "not fair" is based on consideration of health insurance and health care as a commodity off of which profit can be made, higher profit than most other "commodities" because protecting one's life and preventing pain drives up the cost. In our current privatized, for-profit health care system, half of what is paid by everyone, healthy or not, goes to the profit margin. On the other hand, in a system where health care is considered a basic human right, and a necessity to the sanctity of life, the overall cost is equalized considerably because the actual cost of the health care drops by half, so the dollar amount collected from everyone also drops.

The equitable factor is lost though when those in a group get a discounted price over those who are not in a situation to be in a group.

What Jon is saying about health care in Dubai is for non-citizens. If I read the information correctly, citizens (who are a minority of the population) do not pay for their health care. I guess they take the cost out of what the expatriates pay.

Less than 15% of those here are Emirate.

In countries with single-payer, government operated health care systems, everyone pays the same, and what they are paying for is access to the system, not the actual cost of their care. Since there is no profit to be made, the money collected easily covers the cost of operating the system, including what is paid to the providers.

Paying the same and getting equal care are two different factors. Not all hospitals are as good in the service and care end. A single payer system seems like it would encourage those who need the care to head to the better ones and avoid the lesser. Also, it seems that if the government is in charge... "Legislation and regulation would direct what care must be provided, to whom, and on what basis."
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby William Thornton » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:20 am

Sandy: " half of what is paid by everyone, healthy or not, goes to the profit margin."

This is a nonsensical statement.

I know a few colleagues who are in some type of medical sharing plan. They are happy. Premiums are much lower. I don't know a lot about the plans but I suspect that it is unworkable except on a limited scale. With Obamacare around, if one of these alternative plans collapse, clients can easily jump back on the gummit plan. I'd guess that someone makes big money on these sharing plans but haven't really looked into it.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby KeithE » Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:31 am

William Thornton wrote:Sandy: " half of what is paid by everyone, healthy or not, goes to the profit margin."

This is a nonsensical statement.

I know a few colleagues who are in some type of medical sharing plan. They are happy. Premiums are much lower. I don't know a lot about the plans but I suspect that it is unworkable except on a limited scale. With Obamacare around, if one of these alternative plans collapse, clients can easily jump back on the gummit plan. I'd guess that someone makes big money on these sharing plans but haven't really looked into it.


Sandy is wrong. Health insurance profit margin are about 4% to 5.25%. Hospital profit margins were 5.7% in 2017. Drug company profits margins are are often over 20% (Pfizer was the most at 42%). But saying half of what is paid goes to “profit margin” is wildly inaccurate.

William is wrong. Not about the viability of Christian Medishare programs (they are working, morality questions aside). But to say they are only 'workable on a limited scale’ is mere conjecture. Universal health care insurance has worked across the globe and in a large subset of the USA (Medicare. I love my coverage). Economy of scales should result with larger systems.

Sandy was perhaps thinking that most of the OECD countries have health care costs per capita in the US are 2 1/2 times more expensive that the OECD average.

Image

Profit margins play a role for sure but so does are (1) our administrative costs, (2) our tendencies to overtreat/overtest and (3) our relatively inactive lifestyle and obese society.

Medicare-for-All is the best near term solution.
Physicians agree
Nurses agree.
70% of Americans agree.
Even a Koch Brothers funded study by the libertarian Mercatus Center at George Mason University agrees (after corrections).

Drug cost control and preventive measures would also help.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby William Thornton » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:02 am

Knew I could count on you for profit data, bro. Thanks.

On medishare, I think we're talking past each other. These are voluntary plans, are they not? I'm not well versed in them.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby KeithE » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:29 am

William Thornton wrote:Knew I could count on you for profit data, bro. Thanks.

You are welcome.

William Thornton wrote:On medishare, I think we're talking past each other. These are voluntary plans, are they not? I'm not well versed in them.


William Thornton wrote:but I suspect that it is unworkable except on a limited scale.


They are voluntary plans. But your suspicion that they would not work on a larger scale is countered by plans all of the world even if they are run by a “gummint”, have no religious test, have no pre-existing conditions limitations, and/or are involuntary plans.

I just took the liberty to push Medicare-for-all.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby William Thornton » Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:12 pm

If not voluntary then we're apples and oranges here.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Sandy » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:02 pm

Jon Estes wrote: Paying the same and getting equal care are two different factors. Not all hospitals are as good in the service and care end. A single payer system seems like it would encourage those who need the care to head to the better ones and avoid the lesser. Also, it seems that if the government is in charge... "Legislation and regulation would direct what care must be provided, to whom, and on what basis."


We have people heading to the better hospitals and avoiding the lesser ones now, under the current system we have, unless you have an HMO, and even then you still pick a PCP in-system who refers you for the most part to the specialists you request. So there are long lines, waits, and higher costs at the better facilities.

Insurance companies now direct what care must be provided, to whom, and on what basis, and the basis is almost always what the providers will charge for the service. I have a problem with ulcers developing on my feet because of diabetes. I had a particularly aggravating one form on the bottom of my right foot just below the big toe that just would not heal. A biopsy showed signs of necrosis and it got infected once and put me in the hospital on IV antibiotics for four days. The prescribed treatment by the doctor was a tissue graft. The tissue itself, 2cm by 2cm grown in a lab, costs $3,000, not counting the procedure. Insurance said no, they needed to put me in a compression cast for three weeks, which costs $1,200. After six weeks, the ulcer opened again. Insurance still said no to the graft even though the doctor said that it would be permanent and wouldn't open up again.

KeithE wrote: Sandy was perhaps thinking that most of the OECD countries have health care costs per capita in the US are 2 1/2 times more expensive that the OECD average.


Actually, what I was thinking was that the shares of United Health Care that are part of my small pension plan have grown the most over the 20 years I've had it, and they've regularly paid a dividend of over 40% of their value annually for the past four or five years. Also, a few years ago, when my school hired an insurance broker who included not-for-profit companies in the plans they offered, our premiums were cut almost in half for similar coverage. When I moved to Illinois, and went with the most well known non-profit insurance provider, my premiums dropped again, more than just a few percentage points. I was told that's the result of there being a larger pool of insured here and there is access to more hospital systems that are part of educational institutions that are not owned by for-profit companies so the costs are less.

I get a specially made pair of shoes once a year, paid by insurance, because of the diabetes. A year ago September, my insurance paid the full price of $230 for a pair of shoes and three sets of inserts. This week, they paid $230 and I paid the additional $375. That didn't count against my out of pocket, that's just what I had to pay. You can't tell me that the profit margin is 5% with that kind of increase in a year.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Sandy » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:16 pm

William Thornton wrote:I know a few colleagues who are in some type of medical sharing plan. They are happy. Premiums are much lower. I don't know a lot about the plans but I suspect that it is unworkable except on a limited scale. With Obamacare around, if one of these alternative plans collapse, clients can easily jump back on the gummit plan. I'd guess that someone makes big money on these sharing plans but haven't really looked into it.


As the administrator of a Christian school, I frequently look into share plans as a means of providing health care benefits to employees. I don't think anyone "makes" money on them. The one they were using here last year before I came sometimes had to wait to accumulate enough cash in the group account before it could pay claims. The premiums were about the same as the Blue Cross we have now, but the coverage was a lot less. And some hospitals and providers won't take them, requiring you to put up the money first. When we surveyed the staff this year about their preference for either a share plan or Blue Cross, they unanimously chose the insurance company.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:17 pm

The problem seems to be that a lot of people have bought into a line that says privatization and the extraction of profit for shareholders will somehow drive the cost of goods and services down. This is one of those GOP myths that an article Keith recently linked and then unlinked was built around.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Sandy » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:15 pm

Haruo wrote:The problem seems to be that a lot of people have bought into a line that says privatization and the extraction of profit for shareholders will somehow drive the cost of goods and services down. This is one of those GOP myths that an article Keith recently linked and then unlinked was built around.


Perhaps it is anecdotal, but I'll illustrate with an example. I have had an issue related to diabetes that required having a procedure designated as a "surgery" about twice a month for a three or four month period. The surgery involves 10 minutes of use of a single scalpel and maybe a dose of lidocaine to thin out callouses on my feet before they become wounds. Previously, when our employer provided insurance was through a for-profit corporation, Coventry, the provider, a podiatrist, charged the insurance $850 for the ten minute procedure plus I paid a $40 copay, and I get that part of that involves their knowledge. When we switched to UPMC insurance, which is owned by the not-for-profit company that also owns the podiatry practice, the same procedure was billed to the insurance company at $250 with a $15 copay. If I'd gone in with a share plan that reimbursed, and paid it out of pocket myself, it would have been $110. Three different prices paid to the same provider for the same service the difference being who was paying. And I don't think it is a wild guess to say that even at $110, someone is still making a profit.

A year ago September, I was in a UPMC hospital for four days to clear up an infection. A dose of Nexium (the purple pill that clears up stomach acid problems) was added to my medication list with the explanation that "all patients get one because of all of the meds you take." My final bill showed that $160 was paid to the hospital for the four nexium tablets I took, $40 per dose. The room was billed at $950 per day including the fourth day even though I was discharged at 3:30 p.m. But everything else I got was itemized and billed, so absolutely nothing came with the $950 room except the privilege of lying in the bed and having a nurse check on you every now and then. A four hour IV drip of antibiotic was $600. The meals cost between $8.50 and $12.50 depending on the order. Bandaids were itemized and billed on the form at 17 cents each. I saw a hospitalist, wound care physician and infectious disease specialist every day, at $400 per visit. The cardiologist came once because I have a defibrillator and was taking blood thinner, he was $600 for his visit and the nurse practitioner who monitored my medication got $180 per visit. Altogether it was more than $3,500 a day. I don't see any way the "costs" could be so high.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Jon Estes » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:33 am

The average income for a medical doctor in the US is just under $180,000.00. When you need treatment for your ills and the doctor comes in and does everything that can be done to make you better... how much is that worth to you?

I do wonder how many people would go into the field of medicine if there was not such a financial reward in salary? I do wonder how we would feel if a hospital didn't have the reserve funds to purchase the best equipment when they are available, so we can best be served? I do wonder if we would take our family members to a second-rate hospital if we knew a cutting-edge hospital was available and better for them?

There will always be good people who cannot afford the cost and be unable to pay the bill. These factors have to be considered in the cost for those who can. This is not a redistribution of the wealth but it is a good business practice.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:48 am

All good and valid things to wonder about. Thanks, Jon and Sandy for useful input.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Sandy » Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:38 pm

Jon Estes wrote:The average income for a medical doctor in the US is just under $180,000.00. When you need treatment for your ills and the doctor comes in and does everything that can be done to make you better... how much is that worth to you?

I do wonder how many people would go into the field of medicine if there was not such a financial reward in salary? I do wonder how we would feel if a hospital didn't have the reserve funds to purchase the best equipment when they are available, so we can best be served? I do wonder if we would take our family members to a second-rate hospital if we knew a cutting-edge hospital was available and better for them?

There will always be good people who cannot afford the cost and be unable to pay the bill. These factors have to be considered in the cost for those who can. This is not a redistribution of the wealth but it is a good business practice.


I don't have a problem with a doctor making a reasonable salary for the service he provides. However, there is a big difference in making a reasonable salary for the skills provided and taking advantage of people's pain and suffering and their instinct to hang onto life as long as they can. I'd say that the difference is somewhere in between the $850 and the $110 the same doctor charged different insurance providers for the same procedure. Where do you draw the line between reasonable pay and profiting from pain? And the whole idea of "how much is that worth to you?" is market-driven medicine and antithetical to the idea that health care is a sanctity of human life issue. Thinking "how much is that worth to you?" is an open door to take advantage of people.

If we follow through with the literal Biblical interpretations we claim to believe from an inerrant, infallible Bible, the knowledge of the human body that doctors and medical professionals have is revealed to them by God. He's the one who created this body and he's the source of the knowledge about how to fix it and keep it going. We call it common grace. And it's a sanctity of human life issue. It's not "how much is this knowledge worth to you?" it's "how much are you worth to God?"
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby KeithE » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:14 pm

Jon Estes wrote:The average income for a medical doctor in the US is just under $180,000.00. When you need treatment for your ills and the doctor comes in and does everything that can be done to make you better... how much is that worth to you?


Fact check time:

Source 1: https://www.sokanu.com/careers/doctor/salary/

With a base pay offer of $189,000 a year, on average, family practitioners and pediatricians are offered the lowest pay of all physicians, according to the medical search and consulting firm Merritt Hawkins & Associates’ 2012 Review of Physician Recruiting Incentives. An orthopedic surgeon, in comparison, earns $519,000. Doctors who go on to specialize make a considerable amount more. Cardiologists are high on the list, being guaranteed an average base salary of $512,000, according to the Merritt Hawkins data. The third highest-paying specialty is in Urology, with these physicians earning an average of $461,000, not including production bonuses or benefits.

Here are Doximity's (a social network for physicians) average U.S. Physician Salaries by specialty:

Allergy and Immunology - $296,705
Anesthesiology - $357,116
Cardiology- $436,849
Colon and Rectal Surgery - $343,277
Dermatology - $400,898
Emergency Medicine - $320,419
Endocrinology - $217,610
Family Medicine - $227,541
Gastroenterology - $379,460
General Surgery - $360,933
Hematology - $376,660
Infectious Disease - $205,570
Internal Medicine - $223,175
Medical Genetics - $158,597
Medicine/Pediatrics - $205,610
Neonatology/Perinatology - $290,853
Nephrology - $306,302
Neurology - $243,105
Neurosurgery - $609,639
Nuclear Medicine - $290,639
Obstetrics & Gynecology - $315,295
Occupational Medicine - $229,450
Oncology - $341,701
Ophthalmology - $343,144
Orthopaedic Surgery - $535,668
Otolaryngology (ENT) - $369,790
Pathology - $302,610
Pediatric Cardiology - $303,917
Pediatric Emergency Medicine - $273,683
Pediatric Endocrinology - $157,394
Pediatric Gastroenterology - $196,708
Pediatric Hematology & Oncology - $192,855
Pediatric Infectious Disease - $163,658
Pediatric Nephrology - $183,730
Pediatric Pulmonology - $218,106
Pediatric Rheumatology - $200,027
Pediatrics - $206,961
Physical Medicine/Rehab - $278,283
Plastic Surgery - $407,709
Preventive Medicine - $270,888
Psychiatry - $227,478
Pulmonology - $317,323
Radiation Oncology - $418,228
Radiology - $404,302
Rheumatology - $244,765
Thoracic Surgery - $471,137
Urology - $381,029
Vascular Surgery - $428,944


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Source 2: https://medium.com/nomad-health/complete-list-of-average-doctor-salaries-by-specialty-e2bbbc0a6186

The mean salary of a doctor in the United States is $294,000/year according to a Medscape Report.


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Source 3: https://www.quora.com/As-a-medical-doctor-in-the-USA-what-is-your-annual-salary

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********************
Three things to note:

Jon quoted a number “just under $180,000.00” that is more indicative of a family practice doctor in 2012 according to the sources I give above. Give us your source so we can see the wording and date. Not saying you are “lying” but it is not accurate either.

Quacks and bad doctors aside, these doctors are well "worth it” as you say - it is a vitally important profession and their training was very substantial.

These doctors (in all specialties) are well below the $1.5M/year salaries that many CEOs receive which I believe are excessive (more than 100 times the US min wage of 7.25/hr = 1.5M/year, 2080 workhours in a year).

------------Fact check ended-----------

Back to Jon’s misplaced comeback to Sandy’s story of Hospital stay.

Sandy’s account:
A year ago September, I was in a UPMC hospital for four days to clear up an infection. A dose of Nexium (the purple pill that clears up stomach acid problems) was added to my medication list with the explanation that "all patients get one because of all of the meds you take." My final bill showed that $160 was paid to the hospital for the four nexium tablets I took, $40 per dose. The room was billed at $950 per day including the fourth day even though I was discharged at 3:30 p.m. But everything else I got was itemized and billed, so absolutely nothing came with the $950 room except the privilege of lying in the bed and having a nurse check on you every now and then. A four hour IV drip of antibiotic was $600. The meals cost between $8.50 and $12.50 depending on the order. Bandaids were itemized and billed on the form at 17 cents each. I saw a hospitalist, wound care physician and infectious disease specialist every day, at $400 per visit. The cardiologist came once because I have a defibrillator and was taking blood thinner, he was $600 for his visit and the nurse practitioner who monitored my medication got $180 per visit. Altogether it was more than $3,500 a day. I don't see any way the "costs" could be so high.


Sandy was mostly complaining (rightfully so) about high hospital costs (not particularly the doctor visits costs) and he has a good point. $3500/day is rather high for a nothing special ("clear up an infection”) hospital stay. The costs are so high because the insurance companies (in cahoots with the hospitals, Big Pharma) dictate the cost limits - each taking as much as they can w/o any true competition.
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Re: Medishare and the like

Postby Haruo » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:13 pm

Yet we let them do it because they are "private enterprise" and thus surely provide the most return on investment.
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