Cultural Captivity of Churches

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Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:50 am

While I would not diminish anyone's concerns, I find that most churches seem in their own cultural captivity. The focus for lots of Baptists either seems to be on CBF's Illumination Project or the SBC's internal squabbling between Calvinist and non-Calvinist factions. Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust. We keep harping on gay marriage while the world is embroiled in almost unceasing warfare somewhere. We nitpick over whether someone wishes us "Merry Christmas" or just says "Happy Holiday" while one in five American children is hungry. Racism and seething angers run beneath the surface. Can God be pleased with kind of religion we are practicing? Will our world be attracted to Christ by the ways we live? Are we caught up in "mint, dill, and cumin?" I think it's time to start asking.
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Jim » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:29 pm

You just did. Now, how about giving the first answer(s)?
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby JE Pettibone » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:08 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:While I would not diminish anyone's concerns, I find that most churches seem in their own cultural captivity. The focus for lots of Baptists either seems to be on CBF's Illumination Project or the SBC's internal squabbling between Calvinist and non-Calvinist factions. Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust. We keep harping on gay marriage while the world is embroiled in almost unceasing warfare somewhere. We nitpick over whether someone wishes us "Merry Christmas" or just says "Happy Holiday" while one in five American children is hungry. Racism and seething angers run beneath the surface. Can God be pleased with kind of religion we are practicing? Will our world be attracted to Christ by the ways we live? Are we caught up in "mint, dill, and cumin?" I think it's time to start asking.


Ed: Dave when you say 'Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. 'Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust."

Do you really believe the Morality of many of our DC politicians is any worse than say many of our school teachers in the typical public School system, or perhaps the public Hospitals in Richmond. Also are sure sure that what ever monies have been spent to settle sexual harassment suits was Tax monies? And if their was no public accounting how do we know about it? :?: :?:
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Rvaughn » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:46 pm

Dave, I think there is little doubt that most churches are caught up in the minutia of their mint, anise and cummin. Problem is, when we start discussing it your "mint, anise and cummin" might be my "judgment, mercy, and faith" -- while my "mint, anise and cummin" might be your "judgment, mercy, and faith."
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Dave Roberts » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:20 pm

JE Pettibone wrote:
Dave Roberts wrote:While I would not diminish anyone's concerns, I find that most churches seem in their own cultural captivity. The focus for lots of Baptists either seems to be on CBF's Illumination Project or the SBC's internal squabbling between Calvinist and non-Calvinist factions. Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust. We keep harping on gay marriage while the world is embroiled in almost unceasing warfare somewhere. We nitpick over whether someone wishes us "Merry Christmas" or just says "Happy Holiday" while one in five American children is hungry. Racism and seething angers run beneath the surface. Can God be pleased with kind of religion we are practicing? Will our world be attracted to Christ by the ways we live? Are we caught up in "mint, dill, and cumin?" I think it's time to start asking.


Ed: Dave when you say 'Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. 'Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust."

Do you really believe the Morality of many of our DC politicians is any worse than say many of our school teachers in the typical public School system, or perhaps the public Hospitals in Richmond. Also are sure sure that what ever monies have been spent to settle sexual harassment suits was Tax monies? And if their was no public accounting how do we know about it? :?: :?:


Well, Ed, it has been reliably reported that members of Congress have used public money. I think they should be held to the same accountability that was levied on former President Clinton. I can't say that they are all perfect angels, but my wife worked in public education for several years, and most of the people with whom she worked were a cut above the morality I have seen lately out of Washington. I also know doctors and staff members in public hospitals in Richmond, and most of them I have met are caring people who respond to others with concern. No, I can't tell you what they do in their off-time, but it's beneath someone of your stature to attack teachers and hospital workers to defend politicians.
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Tim Bonney » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:37 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:While I would not diminish anyone's concerns, I find that most churches seem in their own cultural captivity. The focus for lots of Baptists either seems to be on CBF's Illumination Project or the SBC's internal squabbling between Calvinist and non-Calvinist factions. Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust. We keep harping on gay marriage while the world is embroiled in almost unceasing warfare somewhere. We nitpick over whether someone wishes us "Merry Christmas" or just says "Happy Holiday" while one in five American children is hungry. Racism and seething angers run beneath the surface. Can God be pleased with kind of religion we are practicing? Will our world be attracted to Christ by the ways we live? Are we caught up in "mint, dill, and cumin?" I think it's time to start asking.


Dave, you've hit the nail on the head not just for Baptists but for US Christians in general.
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Haruo » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:26 pm

Rvaughn wrote:Dave, I think there is little doubt that most churches are caught up in the minutia of their mint, anise and cummin. Problem is, when we start discussing it your "mint, anise and cummin" might be my "judgment, mercy, and faith" -- while my "mint, anise and cummin" might be your "judgment, mercy, and faith."
Agreed.

I am very grateful for the Sacred Harp community. We had over 200 singers from four or five countries, 8 or 9 states, and sang 184 or so songs over two days. I got to lead the one line of non-English in the book (310); a young Muslim woman (not sure how many of the people knew that's what she is) led 117 of all things. I got to practice my Japanese (with a girl from Vietnam of all places). I got rid of about 60 cheesecakes that I didn't have the stomach for.
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Sandy » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:46 am

JE Pettibone wrote:Do you really believe the Morality of many of our DC politicians is any worse than say many of our school teachers in the typical public School system, or perhaps the public Hospitals in Richmond.


"Morality" is subjective. What standard are you applying? Romans 3?
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Tim Bonney » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:52 pm

Sandy wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Do you really believe the Morality of many of our DC politicians is any worse than say many of our school teachers in the typical public School system, or perhaps the public Hospitals in Richmond.


"Morality" is subjective. What standard are you applying? Romans 3?


Yes, I believe the morality of most public school teachers is higher than the morality of our p***y grabbing President. No doubt. If not they should be out.
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Jim » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:48 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:While I would not diminish anyone's concerns, I find that most churches seem in their own cultural captivity. The focus for lots of Baptists either seems to be on CBF's Illumination Project or the SBC's internal squabbling between Calvinist and non-Calvinist factions.

Whether Baptist or other denomination(s), the main focus of the church is on being accepted by society on society's terms--Diversity as the new god. This is antithetical to Christ's position, which was that society was to be accepted on the church's terms. He was totally ostracized even by his own folks and made no effort to "fit-in," just the opposite. The Calvinists should shut-up about predestination, which indicates that a "loving" God meant to roast non-believers forever, thus making no sense to the "outsider."

Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches.

Prophetically? Exactly how?

Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust.

The same old dodge! Blame government...actually continue the hangover from the last election. Officials are a cross-section of the population, no better, no worse. There are charlatans in the church leaderships/memberships, as well. Start a "Me, Too" movement in your church and get out of the way, remembering that women do not have a corner on either fidelity or innocence.

We keep harping on gay marriage while the world is embroiled in almost unceasing warfare somewhere.

Speak for yourself. I'll harp on the evil of same-sex marriage until my toes turn up. Exactly what do you expect to do about the unceasing warfare somewhere else? Obama did that in Libya and destroyed the nation, with many thousands killed in his little 7-month war.

We nitpick over whether someone wishes us "Merry Christmas" or just says "Happy Holiday" while one in five American children is hungry. Racism and seething angers run beneath the surface.

Both Jesus and Paul affirmed that Satan is the ruler of this world, so what do you expect? The angers run on the surface, not beneath it. It's exhibited in the news every day.

Can God be pleased with kind of religion we are practicing? Will our world be attracted to Christ by the ways we live? Are we caught up in "mint, dill, and cumin?" I think it's time to start asking.

I can't answer for God, but "practicing" religion is part of the problem. As for the world, probably six billion have no idea of the "ways we live."
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby Sandy » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:42 pm

Dave Roberts wrote:While I would not diminish anyone's concerns, I find that most churches seem in their own cultural captivity. The focus for lots of Baptists either seems to be on CBF's Illumination Project or the SBC's internal squabbling between Calvinist and non-Calvinist factions. Young people who survived a shooting in their high school have spoken much more prophetically than have we in the churches. Again, the morality of many of our government officials in both parties has produced a swamp in Washington where hush money is paid to porn stars and members of Congress spend tax money to settle sexual harassment suits without any public accounting for the violation of public trust. We keep harping on gay marriage while the world is embroiled in almost unceasing warfare somewhere. We nitpick over whether someone wishes us "Merry Christmas" or just says "Happy Holiday" while one in five American children is hungry. Racism and seething angers run beneath the surface. Can God be pleased with kind of religion we are practicing? Will our world be attracted to Christ by the ways we live? Are we caught up in "mint, dill, and cumin?" I think it's time to start asking.


Well said, and amen.
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Re: Cultural Captivity of Churches

Postby JE Pettibone » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:08 am

Tim Bonney wrote:
Sandy wrote:
JE Pettibone wrote:Do you really believe the Morality of many of our DC politicians is any worse than say many of our school teachers in the typical public School system, or perhaps the public Hospitals in Richmond.


"Morality" is subjective. What standard are you applying? Romans 3?


Yes, I believe the morality of most public school teachers is higher than the morality of our p***y grabbing President. No doubt. If not they should be out.


Ed: Tim: You answered a question that I did not ask. Nor did I ask about the morality of most teachers or most hospital staffs. My point to sandy was that I believe he is overly critical of the "morality" of MOST DC politicians.
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